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Author Topic: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD  (Read 698623 times)

FantasticDorf

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1935 on: July 12, 2016, 01:02:51 pm »

Hi, lets get to dissecting these issue then.

Values and dreams (creating a great work of art, ...):
I removed the [VALUE:ALL:-30:30] and replaced it with the indiviudual values randomised, e.g.: [VALUE:LAW:20:50]. It works quite good, and I've observerd the dreams of the individuals seem to be based on the values it holds in high regard. For example, if a member values martial prowess really much, he is prone to dream of becoming a legendary warrior. Most of the members of most my curent civs don't have any dreams, though. I dn't think this is any new observation, but I wanted to share it nevertheless.

[VALUE:ALL] was related to the vanilla unique attribute for human society to be ultimately variable rather than straight set on what it's citizens will believe in (don't quote me on this but i think its only applicable to the baseline civ values) having only one cultural value may end up being restrictive but it modifies the citizens behavior and considerations notably.

To have a dream citizens need to have a collaboration of different values present or a overwhelming cultural value to fill the requirements to have a dream (high power values tip the probability of having a 'want to rule the world' dream for instance, since its VERY high in goblin society, its nearly the complete unanimous dream between every goblin for one reason or another)

Possible metals at embarking:
I also suspect that if a civ hasn't the capability of steelmaking, like mine, and has no access to iron, it can bring bronze items in trade although it doesn't has access to tin. One of my testworlds I had a civ where I couldn't embark with iron items, I could buy bronze armour, but when I wanted to bring casserite with me I hadn't the option too. It only had access to gold, silver, bismuth and two ores of copper, I think. I deleted the world, so I can't confirm that, sadly. I know similar behavior is known for steel and dwarves without iron. I forgot to check what anvil I had, too.

Metals 'at embark' (or moreso world gen) is determined by where the sites are founded with the minerals available underneath them, its universal to all entities and is a core game feature. If your capital/settlements/fortresses were settled on-top of a source of iron for instance, you would be able to access iron at embark because its linked into your 'trading network'

To explain, each capital city and player fortress has a 'market' (which denotes it as a important central province) where nobles, both procedurally generated and modded in with [REQUIRES_MARKET] are to handle position responsibilities like [RESPONSIBILITY:TRADE], because a real economy is a development goal and not implemented fully, its all artifically generated out of nothing (the traders read off a list of what's available and how 'rich' they are from trading with you) but there will be real trading sometime in the future and provinces creating flows of local goods.

If you were to delete a capital and all settlements with [MARKET], you would be unable to embark with barely anything at all (besides a handful of goods like [INDOOR_WOOD] which are unaffected). If you jump into adventurer mode and ask some locals to where do you trade, they'll tell you that all their goods that they 'produce' goes to the nearest capital province with a market to be distributed, and that is how the game artifically connects the little provinces together with the embark screen by routing it through the big provinces.

Settling and unsettling fortresses after a amount of time (because they have markets with a depot built i believe makes them egible) helps to build up trade links, especially if your civ is totally dead though there are some goods (like pet animals) that can only be exported to your trading network on embark (only) if they are domesticated in world-gen and are applicable for your race (Assuming you have USE_CAVE_ANIMALS, with a already revealed subterranean level 1 via digging down below the surface with a practice fort, allowing materials such as purring maggot milk to be used, remember when you embark on a map initially, you are blind of the trade goods below you that become accessible later when you've 'tapped' the resources and gained access)

Nobels:
As it is needed for a well playable civ, I copied the nobles from the dwarves and changed them. I changed the names of most of them and created some new positions. The worldgen positions like king,general, etc. were not much changed beside adding GENDER:MALE on a few of them and changing their names. I had no issues with theses, as far as I could see from legends.
I also created two new positions to replace the expedition leader and mayor. These also had the responsibities of the manager, bookkeeper, broker, hammerer, and sheriff/captain of the guard. As the entity is roman themed, I made set the number of these to 2 ([NUMBER:2]), and had them elected. I ran into two issues with them:
1) As I had read somewhere, it turned out that having both EXECUTION and LAW_ENFORCEMENT on the same position gives an error message when the noble tries to punish the "criminal" with a beating. It is cancelled a few times but eventually the beating has occured. However, you get spammed with errors. I moved that token to the milita commanders equivalent, and it seems to fit better, anyway. No problems since.
2) Having two of them and having them elected gives a few problem: Everytime the elections happen, one person is elected into both of the avaible positions. This would be only as annoying as an elected person is, if the position hadn't the GENDER:MALE token, too. It can happen, that, if you only have one male, you can't replace the position. This can have a severe impact of the game if you remove him from both positions, as you now have only one or none canidate left. He will then take that position all few seconds again, but he is now only replacing the first position, so it will probably happen until you have a second suitable canidate. I haven't waited that long. I removed the [ELECTED] token and took care to only embark with more than one male, so I avoided the problems, also I wondered if anybody has experience with higher numbers than 1 or suggestion how to handle these issues.
I have to say that the work done by these positions, such as trading works perfectly fine. The two humans divide the work between them, for example if a trader is requested and one of them is hauling goods, the other will head to the depot.

Also, I put [NUMBER:2] on the general and it seemed to work in legends mode. I put a SQUAD token on the baron and other nobles, but have still to wait how that will work out.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance,
kks.

No worries. I talk a bit myself.

Firstly, the [RESPONSIBILITY:EXECUTION] requires additional token fields to define the weapon and skill being used (meaning you can swap it out to something more roman like a dagger/whip/spear), and as you point out, is a bad fit with law enforcement, law enforcement is up to you though i will stress that if you don't care about prisoners dying brutal deaths, allow the military to handle [RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_ENFORCEMENT] to apply beatings/punishment with their weapons.

Secondly, [ELECTED] picks people on account of their social skills (or whatever skills are relevant to the responsibility, elected traders choose the highest appraiser & social skills etc), not via actual voting or democracy that makes sense, its more or less a 'directed way' of choosing a new expedition leader. Having two with identical jobs as you describe will constantly throw the jobs between them, i would recommend "acting on the will of the people" and choosing them yourself by disabling elected or making a compromise for one only.

Use [REJECTED_CLASS:FEMALE] to filter out for your male preference automatically.

Thirdly, you cannot use or allocate squadrons to every land holder noble position without adding them too,to the military screen in order to control and modify who can join and what equipment they have on a [SITE] fortress level (and lots of military squads unless they were very tight with no unlimited militia captains is actually quite excessive, personal armies via militia captains with 'number as needed' are theoretically infinite but can only go out to lead those armies if the position has [RESPONSIBILITY:MILITARY_STRATEGY] in worldgen
settings)

EDIT - i might have touched on some things you have done already (which is a impressively extensive effort for copying the base game entity) to point them out in greater detail

VERY IMPORTANT - Change the entity position tags [MONARCH] etc all the way down, and all the relations accordingly so that dwarf base entities dont get confused and the game will conflict and crash upon itself with agusti commanding the dwarven nobility as per game crashing and vice versa.
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OluapPlayer

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1936 on: July 17, 2016, 12:10:49 pm »

Hey there, first time posting here.

I'm trying to mod in some creatures to essentially be part of the HFS. Inhabit Hell, escape when adamantine is breached, maul dorfs into pieces and all that stuff. However, while I can get them to spawn in Hell, the demons there kill them on sight, so there's not really much opportunity for them to cause havoc. Is there any way to make the game recognize them as allies of the demons? I've tried giving them the [DEMON] token but from what the wiki says, it does nothing in non-generated creatures, which is kind of dumb.
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ThatZommy

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1937 on: July 17, 2016, 01:45:35 pm »

Hey there, first time posting here.

I'm trying to mod in some creatures to essentially be part of the HFS. Inhabit Hell, escape when adamantine is breached, maul dorfs into pieces and all that stuff. However, while I can get them to spawn in Hell, the demons there kill them on sight, so there's not really much opportunity for them to cause havoc. Is there any way to make the game recognize them as allies of the demons? I've tried giving them the [DEMON] token but from what the wiki says, it does nothing in non-generated creatures, which is kind of dumb.

I didn't even know it was possible to have creatures spawn in the circus, but if I were to suggest something I'd say try one of the tags that make them undead. If that doesn't work, which wouldn't surprise me, I've no idea.
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OluapPlayer

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1938 on: July 17, 2016, 02:20:54 pm »

I didn't even know it was possible to have creatures spawn in the circus, but if I were to suggest something I'd say try one of the tags that make them undead. If that doesn't work, which wouldn't surprise me, I've no idea.

Yeah, you can make things spawn at the circus with [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:5:5]. Unfortunately making them undead didn't work, or at least [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE] doesn't work. They and the normal demons still kill each other.
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Eric Blank

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1939 on: July 17, 2016, 02:24:09 pm »

I don't think there's any way to actaully fix that, really.

You can make your critters so deadly they actually take over, though.
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I make Spellcrafts!
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OluapPlayer

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1940 on: July 17, 2016, 02:34:30 pm »

Nah that's a bit too much. I guess I'll try and come up with an alternative, like making them an evil civilization or something.
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Eric Blank

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1941 on: July 17, 2016, 04:15:54 pm »

Could make them a tribal cavern civ, like animal man tribes. Restrict them to cavern three.
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

ZM5

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1942 on: July 17, 2016, 04:37:16 pm »

Speaking of that, is it possible to have sort of an aboveground equivalent of the cavern civs? So they're still hostile to everyone and have [FEATURE_ATTACK_GROUP], carry equipment, etc. but are found aboveground instead?

FantasticDorf

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1943 on: July 17, 2016, 05:02:28 pm »

It'd probably be helpful if demons had some kind of identifying HFS group/custom hardcoded layer linked entity configuration (out of the hands of the player i assume, something for the adam bro's to consider), else make them innumerable (250/500 same as vermin is a good number, bump it up if they get murdered easily) & physically below par/on with demons themselves so that there is a natural balance.

Create a whole ecosystem down there if you're up to it, the creatures need to be strong, deadly and fast. Also demons only spawn as soon as HFS is revealed as a requirement so creatures will be trotting around regardless. Flying and climbing traits are also optimal. (I wonder if you could spawn hell-whales/fish by designating subterrenean magma 5:5)

EDIT - ZM5 - Layer linked civilisations (which is a per-requisite to 'tribal civs', though at one point hyena men did live on encampments in the surface. This was most likely commented out by toady along with other features such as the old 'frog demon lairs' and cursed underground fortress) have to be underground to spawn

Seeing how far/low you can spawn a layer linked civilisation would be interesting in the name of science, unless the encampments on the topmost level are fixed.
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wickys

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1944 on: July 18, 2016, 11:12:55 am »

What do the FORCED tags do with clothing and armor? Does it mean every civ member will wear these items? What if there are multiple helmets with the FORCED tag?

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Max™

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1945 on: July 18, 2016, 02:41:01 pm »

Means all those FORCED civs have the knowledge to make that gear, while COMMON and such are just almost sure to have it.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1946 on: July 18, 2016, 03:06:18 pm »

Means all those FORCED civs have the knowledge to make that gear, while COMMON and such are just almost sure to have it.

Goblin civ A conquers dwarf fortress site B (with a market, so its a fortress and therefore the big distribution point for the civ's products, hillocks are just depository/overspill population and give pretense of local resources to the market they are tied to) but integrates it into its own government (as seen by controlling goblins, letting worldgen run and seeing the local dwarf fortress site come up as a friendly site of your entity but still being dwarven controlled, its a rare sight but it does happen)

So dilligent dwarves in that fortress work on books because they can't vent their moods (and with the new world gen relics/artifacts in the devlog for the next version they can make something substantial) for the benefit of the goblin civilisation, as well as weapons and items too that they are [FORCED] to make to supply the goblin armies, as well as produce pontentially steel weapons and armour for goblins out of the selection of materials they have a available.

Its a area subject that needs more detail and a little more science, but that's what i've gleamed from it.
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Max™

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1947 on: July 19, 2016, 05:50:01 pm »

It's not that complex, it literally just means that if you embark with a civ that has [UNCOMMON] for say, great axes, they might be able to make them, and might not. With [COMMON] they would mostly be able to make them, and with [FORCED] they will always have the knowledge to make that item.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1948 on: July 19, 2016, 06:03:40 pm »

It's not that complex, it literally just means that if you embark with a civ that has [UNCOMMON] for say, great axes, they might be able to make them, and might not. With [COMMON] they would mostly be able to make them, and with [FORCED] they will always have the knowledge to make that item.

Eh that's definitely a better way of explaining it.

Well for the purposes of my own example, it'd still work for supplying guaranteed templates of a armour/weapon post-conquering rather than a flimsy chance out of the supplied local/civ materials. Get those dwarf slaves labourers in the conquered site the next fort over to start churning out those [FORCED] masks and bulk up the economy if goblins are too lazy/work shy to make anything substantial themselves.

Pip-pip for more site conquering and importable civ alternative weapons/clothing ahead in the future.
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ThatZommy

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Re: [MODDING] CREATURE & ENTITY QUESTIONS THREAD
« Reply #1949 on: July 19, 2016, 11:17:16 pm »

I've decided to start working on a mod involving spaceship-creatures (Because the Swimmerroons still don't work), and I was wondering if anybody else had tried something similar or had any tips/tricks. The idea is to have "creatures" that sound and work like spaceships, just for arena mode entertainment. Sorry if it's not specific enough, but I thought this was probably the best place to ask about it.
Last time I remember the biggest issue involving tissues, which makes sense considering my ineptitude when it comes to the b_detail_plan stuff.
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Er, atleast I think that's right.
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