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[GlyphGryph]

And there's basically zero evidence that kids get teased for not being circumcised nowadays. It's growing increasingly less common. I dunno, man, I think you made a poor choice here. But it is, in fact, your choice to make, not mine, so I'll leave it at that. :/

Just... weird. I mean, I guess I could understand if you, personally, thought it looked better, or you'd think that he would choose to do it as an adult so you're saving him the cringe-worthy stress, but... I dunno, man. I dunno.

[Neonivek]

And there's basically zero evidence that kids get teased for not being circumcised nowadays. It's growing increasingly less common. I dunno, man, I think you made a poor choice here. But it is, in fact, your choice to make, not mine, so I'll leave it at that. :/

Just... weird. I mean, I guess I could understand if you, personally, thought it looked better, or you'd think that he would choose to do it as an adult so you're saving him the cringe-worthy stress, but... I dunno, man. I dunno.

Well he isn't a child. Remember he is going into this from where he is where an uncircumcised person looks weird.

[ChairmanPoo]

And the whole "letting the child choose" bit is bullshit. What sane male is going to voluntarily choose to be circumised when they're old enough to comprehend it fully?

I would think this supports the case "against" rather than the "for"

[GlyphGryph]

Well he isn't a child. Remember he is going into this from where he is where an uncircumcised person looks weird.

Circumsicion rate in the US is less than 30%. I don't know how old his son is, but I doubt it was more than 60% even back then.

I don't think that holds.

[Neonivek]

Well he isn't a child. Remember he is going into this from where he is where an uncircumcised person looks weird.

Circumsicion rate in the US is less than 30%. I don't know how old his son is, but I doubt it was more than 60% even back then.

I don't think that holds.

We established it was 80% at the time.

[Frumple]

And the whole "letting the child choose" bit is bullshit. What sane male is going to voluntarily choose to be circumised when they're old enough to comprehend it fully?

I would think this supports the case "against" rather than the "for"

Context, CP. In the case of that sentence, it was implied that even if it were to the person's benefit (as with RK pushing back a vasectomy despite apparently being happy with the number of children he's spawned), they would hold off or avoid the procedure entirely strictly because of the area being operated on.

[GlyphGryph]

Neonivek, when did we do that? Because that's a blatant fucking lie.

Unless you mean as a percent of total population - yeah, sure, that's about right. But that's not the circumcision rate. But we were talking about peers, so the rate matters, and the rate is currently < %30, which means any circumcised child is going to stand out as a minority in our current cultural climate.

It was 56% in 2006, and 32% in 2009. It's only dropped since then.

[RedKing]

And the whole "letting the child choose" bit is bullshit. What sane male is going to voluntarily choose to be circumised when they're old enough to comprehend it fully? (well, other than the sort that would get their penis pierced, which are skirting the margins of "sane" IMHO)

Listen to yourself. It is true that very few sane males would choose to do this to themselves when they fully comprehend it. This is exactly the reason why it is wrong to force it upon someone who cannot speak for themselves.

I'm pretty sure my daughter would rather have had her eye surgery at 2 than at 20. If you're going to go through something unpleasant, do it early.

To be honest, my wife and I were ambivalent on the issue, which we discussed for some time. In the end, we chose the cultural default (which for Caucasians in the United States, is to circumcise). If we lived in Europe, we might have chosen differently.

Unfortunate though it may be, that's the crucial factor in any decision a parent makes. A parent decides what a child eats, where a child lives, who a child is allowed to spend time with, whether there's smoke or alcohol in the child's vicinity, whether a child needs to try to get a job during high school. All sorts of tremendously important decisions that, in my opinion, are going to have a far vaster impact on the child's future than this.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS. Frankly, I expect to catch more hell from my son for our choice of name than for our choice of penis configuration. And rightly so, because his name will have more impact on him.

[Neonivek]

Neonivek, when did we do that? Because that's a blatant fucking lie.

It isn't that NOW! it was that at the time he would have had his done.

[RedKing]

For the record, my son is 2. Which means he was circumcised in 2010. Don't know what the rate was then. Frankly, don't give a flying fuck.

You want an uncircumcised child? Go make one.

[GlyphGryph]

In the end, we chose the cultural default (which for Caucasians in the United States, is to circumcise).

Was, not is. Hasn't been the case since 2007. You very clearly decided against cultural norms on this one.

[Bauglir]

Yes, but I'm willing to bet the "it was 80%" was when RedKing was circumcised himself, and that the argument being made is that since he grew up in an environment in which it was the case it's not really that unreasonable for him to have made the same assumption instead of researching rigorously. That said, I'm starting to wonder if we're wandering far too close to personal attack territory (for the record, I don't think we're there yet, just that we are very, very close).

[RedKing]

Fine...the cultural default for Caucasians in our socioeconomic clade in this locality. Better?
Because the vast majority of our friends and family with male children in the last few years have been circumcising. Maybe we're offset by a wave of happy foreskins in California, who knows?

[moocowmoo]

Yes, but I'm willing to bet the "it was 80%" was when RedKing was circumcised himself, and that the argument being made is that since he grew up in an environment in which it was the case it's not really that unreasonable for him to have made the same assumption instead of researching rigorously. That said, I'm starting to wonder if we're wandering far too close to personal attack territory (for the record, I don't think we're there yet, just that we are very, very close).

Yes I don't want RedKing to be attacked like he's a horrible person. The real problem is the cultural norm he described. I myself had no idea what circumcision was or that it was even done to me for most of my life. People just do not talk about it. If I'd had a child 5 years ago there's a good chance I'd have consented to having him circumcised, thinking well there must have been a good reason for my parents to have me circumcised so I will do what they did. Read some of the stories here of mothers who had their sons circumcised and were not told at all what the operation entails. Some were even pressured and bullied into it by family and hospital staff.

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/112410/if-you-regret-circumcising-your-son-s-please-post-here

[Bauglir]

I completely agree that it's wrong to undertake a surgical procedure without understanding what it entails, and even worse to talk someone else into doing so. Bit of a tangent, though.