Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[RedKing]

 
I don't need to watch a video. I was standing right there, thank you very much. It was quick, there was a minimum of bloodshed, and my son was back to normal within about 10 minutes.

He screamed more when he got his first vaccination shot. Or are you of the mind that vaccinations are a terrible thing too, because the infant can't consent?


Honestly, this is the kind of overblown bullshit I'd expect out of PETA.

[Neonivek]

Honestly, this is the kind of overblown bullshit I'd expect out of PETA

PETA is far far worse... trust me on that. I believe in animal rights to a certain extent... but PETA I give no respect even as animal rights activists.

[moocowmoo]

Vaccination shots are not permanent, cosmetic alterations of the body. Nurses describe babies getting very quiet after the procedure or they fall asleep and are very hard to wake up. This is consistent with going into shock. You cannot deny how painful it must be if you look at what they remove in the surgery and how. The foreskin is adhered to the glans and must be pried from it with forceps before it is crushed or cut off. Now after the surgery is done, the wounds and the very sensitive glans are exposed to the abrasion of diapers and full contact with urine and feces. So the pain continues for months.

[RedKing]

Vaccination shots are not permanent, cosmetic alterations of the body. Nurses describe babies getting very quiet after the procedure or they fall asleep and are very hard to wake up and this is attributed to shock. You cannot deny how painful it must be if you look at what they remove in the surgery and how. The foreskin is adhered to the glans and must be pried from it with forceps before it is crushed or cut off. Now after the surgery is done, the wounds and the very sensitive glans are exposed to the abrasion of diapers and full contact with urine and feces. So the pain continues for months.

Which is why the parents are busy applying Vaseline to it constantly, to keep it from getting irritated or infected. Just like they have to clean and swab the navel until the remnants of the umbilical cord falls off.

I'm curious to know then....do you think parents getting their kids' ears pierced is a crime against humanity? Because that's a permanent cosmetic alteration.


Y'know, I've gotta ask....do you have kids? Have you ever been a parent? Do you know what it's like to have to make difficult decisions on behalf of someone who can't make them on their own?

When my daughter was 2, my wife and I had to make the decision to take our child to a hospital where they anesthetised her (try watching someone gassing your child into unconsciousness without getting all sorts of conflicting emotions), then they cut her fucking eyeballs open, cut the muscles attached to them, and sewed them back together. When she woke up, she was frightened, confused, and in a lot of pain. She went completely berzerk. I had no idea a two-year old could rip out her own IV. But you know what? That's a decision we made on her behalf, because I'm pretty sure she didn't want to go blind in one eye later in life.

I didn't enjoy watching my son get circumcised, but that's my decision to make as a parent. Frankly, I'm fine with being circumcised, and I think he will be too. If he hates me for it later, that's on me. But that's strictly between him and us.

[Neonivek]

Actually oddly enough Redking I found that if you simply do not wear earrings for long enough it is more then possible for your ears to heal up.

Also I like the flow of your words RedKing, but they are written in a very aggrivating way. Look at the last sentence. "I didn't enjoy... My decision... I'm fine... Hates me... Between him and me". A up and down.

[GlyphGryph]

I do wonder at the motivation of people who circumcise their children though. Despite what I've said so far, I really couldn't give two shits about the actual act. (Just as I don't give two shits about the lesser forms of FGM) But some of the rationales people have used really grate me.

Like, RedKing, from what I understand, you aren't a hardcore religious dude. Maybe I'm wrong there. So I don't really understand why you would circumcise your kid. There's sort of a mental disconnect here. It's like if heard about a parent that regularly dyed their children with berry juice so they'd walk around purple all the time, or decorated them with body jewelry, or in enrol them in child beauty pageants. It's just... disconcerting to me, on the whole. It's not a huge deal, it's not something I'm going to push to legalize, but it does sort of turn my stomache a bit I suppose.

[moocowmoo]

RedKing I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking and criticizing you. I fully believe that you care about your children and did what you thought best. I feel the same way towards my parents and don't hate them for choosing this for me. If your are okay with being circumcised that's fine, and I hope your son doesn't hate you for circumcising him. I just want to emphasize that it is completely unnecessary to subject a child to this kind of pain, and deprive him of the choice of whether or not to remove a healthy, perfectly formed body part from himself. The foreskin is not diseased or dangerous. It is better to err on the side of letting the child choose to do it as an adult, instead of making an alteration that cannot ever be reversed, for purely cosmetic reasons, on someone incapable of saying no.

[Dutchling]

  <-- My face when I found out that the circumcision people where talking about in this thread had nothing to do with Judaism/Islam. I have never heard of people circumcising their children without a religious motive before.

There is no health related reason for it, is there? I initially thought there was, but the only reason for it I found using a quick Google search was 'my parents got me circumcised and there is nothing wrong with me right now'.

[RedKing]

We didn't do it for hygiene or religious reasons. We did it for convenience and frankly, because in the United States he's gonna get teased about it later in life if we don't. Conformity to a cultural norm isn't a horrible thing.

And the whole "letting the child choose" bit is bullshit. What sane male is going to voluntarily choose to be circumised when they're old enough to comprehend it fully? (well, other than the sort that would get their penis pierced, which are skirting the margins of "sane" IMHO)

Hell, I've been putting off getting a vasectomy for months just because sharp things and dangly bits don't go well together in my mind.

If it were that psychologically easy to do later in life, it'd be different. My daughter has an extra half-toe (one toe is bifurcated with two toenails). We could have had it removed when she was an infant but chose not to. Because there's no particular psychological aversion to having toe surgery.

[GlyphGryph]

Dutchling, It's pretty much purely cosmetic, yeah.

[Bauglir]

Yeah, I know. I did say it's a shitty defense of the act, itself. What I'm trying to say is that the language being used to describe what may well be a bad thing implies that it's ruining lives to a degree that it probably isn't. I get that there's a lot of problems, between people who aren't really able to tell whether it's better or worse, not to mention social shame from speaking up about it, but even so, phrases like "human rights violation" call to mind images of enslavement, mass murder, and the like. Which is a degree apart, even if they are technically accurate umbrella terms.

People keep repeatedly saying this. "Your language is accurate but it's too much". I can't use mutilation because FGM is worse, I can't use human rights violation because mass murder is worse. So I guess I'm supposed to just say it's just circumcision, just a little snip. Strapping a baby down in restraints and taking a knife to his genitals while he is fully conscious and screaming in pain is not severe enough to warrant strong language apparently.

And shoving the charred remains of a fellow creature into an orifice to be ground to a paste and dissolved into a nutritious sludge is a technically accurate description of eating a baked potato. You can describe anything in disturbing terms, but I'm unconvinced that circumcision is likely to ruin a person's life, even though I'll happily agree that it's an unnecessary medical procedure that I wouldn't inflict on my own children because it seems unnecessary. To me.

Unfortunate though it may be, that's the crucial factor in any decision a parent makes. A parent decides what a child eats, where a child lives, who a child is allowed to spend time with, whether there's smoke or alcohol in the child's vicinity, whether a child needs to try to get a job during high school. All sorts of tremendously important decisions that, in my opinion, are going to have a far vaster impact on the child's future than this.

I understand that you've been hurt by a decision you never had a choice in, and I understand that you don't want anybody else to be forced into it, but that's not what I'm talking about. And the way you're approaching your goal is going to alienate more people than it's going to convince, and not all of them are going to be alienated because they're offended by "the truth".

[moocowmoo]

oops doublepost

[moocowmoo]

And the whole "letting the child choose" bit is bullshit. What sane male is going to voluntarily choose to be circumised when they're old enough to comprehend it fully? (well, other than the sort that would get their penis pierced, which are skirting the margins of "sane" IMHO)

Listen to yourself. It is true that very few sane males would choose to do this to themselves when they fully comprehend it. This is exactly the reason why it is wrong to force it upon someone before they can comprehend it.

[Dutchling]

It seems to me that RedKing assumes that 'letting the child choose', means 'letting the child choose to get himself circumcised'.
That or I am wrong (I probably am wrong)

[Neonivek]

We did it for convenience and frankly, because in the United States he's gonna get teased about it later in life if we don't.

You know... when I said it was cosmetic surgery I was somewhat being facetious (or however you spell it)... I didn't expect that to genuinly end up being the answer.