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Yes

4 (14.3%)

No

1 (3.6%)

It was fun for a long time but towards the end it just started to drag

6 (21.4%)

I wish I could have joined in.

17 (60.7%)

Total Members Voted: 28

[Eric Blank]

[I have to agree with the "doesn't like to see death and suffering abound" thing. Hate it, that's why I've begun construction of a massive, impenetrable citadel to thwart invaders and wanted to invent a way to extend the lives of others and asked Athel to help out; he wanted to be with his girlfriend forever but acknowledged that he was prone to accidents and had a very, very dangerous job that he's just not serious enough in personality to maintain, hence why he got blown up and ended up in a table, because there were no other alternatives to the table at the time. If I dislike Wierd, it's because he, from my knowledge, wants the antithesis of this and is trying to please a goddess to save his own hide after becoming a necromancer, ignoring everything I hope to accomplish and only extending the suffering of others. And also because he ruined my fucking table. That thing was my ARTIFACT. I only get one of them, ever, and now I can't even use it as a desk because there's a massive cork and a statue of a naked woman glued to it with divine superglue. Luckily I "Don't really care about anything anymore" after everyone I ever loved or cared about died in the old fortress, or I'd have gone berserk.

If I used that magic again in the future, I'd at least run the loopholes and let Wierd have his way to an extent so he doesn't flip shit again. Maybe. But I'd definitely replace the fucking table. That was only temporary anyway. Needed to find a golem or monkey or something.]

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Id love to see a deep introspection of ZTGs character, where he contemplates why people don't appreciate his interventions, where he suffers self doubt, and considers leaving them to suffer, and fights that idea on internal moral grounds.  Imagine superman feeling depressed over being blamed for the deaths of orphans, because of where he threw lex luthor's super bomb, and contemplating if it would be better if superman never flew again, and if the guilt of inaction would be easier to bear than the guilt of the consequences of action.  That kind of thing makes superman more real.  Just don't get too emo with it though.

The whole storyline I am working on with the dragon siege and subsequent civil war is where I plan to illustrate that, ending with him losing near-everything.  Max spell strength will be reduced to only 2-3 mana, aging of 10 years in an instant (putting him near 48), the loss of the current blade, and the reduction of all his skills to the novice-adept range or just plain losing them instantly.  Strength and agility will reduce sharply, etc, etc.

And, like many here, I do not like death or suffering.  The mana colors I use represent justice, law, order, freedom, vengeance, intelligence, wisdom, and reason, which are my ideals.

[wierd]

One thing to consider, is that wierd is not entirely self directed. He has the illusion of free will, but may be compelled to do horrible things, or act irrationally concerning death, the dead, and ghosts.

As a contractee of the death goddess, he is subtly and irresistibly compelled to statisfy the obligations of the natural order, even if that natural order causes suffering. At least when the subject at hand is death.  He is aware of this fact, and that it is at odds with his personality quirks concerning choices and personal responsibility.  He reconciles it internally that he chose this, and now has to live with it, which explains his seeming devotion to such duties.

He wants to avoid having people contract with divinities because of the subtle loss of personal choice that those contracts often come with.  This is the reason why he is angry that eric made not just one contract, but two.  He doesn't really blame eric. He blames the gods that eric contracted with for compelling eric to do stupid shit.

As evidenced by the binding of athel to the clockwork body scene, he's perfectly OK with letting a spirit come back on its own, but totally against spirits circumventing the rules.  Giving a spirit additional options, if they want it, is perfectly OK.


ZTG:

I would rather see your character stay just as powerful as ever, but willingly choose not to use his powers, out of respect for other people.  Part of having a unique skill, power, or knowledge is knowing when NOT to use it.  Just recently wierd chided himself for even THINKING of raising the cyborgs as zombies, given that those were people's loved ones, and had already suffered seeing them be 'converted' like that. Seeing them raised as zombies, no matter how useful the zombies might later prove to be, would simply be sick and unfeeling.

This willful decision to INaction is just as important to a character as their decisions to act.

This subtle fact is one of the reasons why I find the christian god as depicted so intriguing, despite being a consumate agnostic.  Its a divinity that is all powerful, but for all intents and purposes, may as well not even exist, because it willfully choses to hide itself from the universe and do nothing t all, to preserve free will and consequence!  It allows the universe to suffer, and evil to rage unchecked, because engaging in "godmode sue" antics would totally destroy free will.

I would love for your character to come away with a similar philosophy rather than having retcon crippling.

He should come to a kind of conclusion that allowing people to suffer for their choices is better than choosing for them, and that fighting for other people denies them the justice of fighting for themselves, and as such, should limit his own powers by pure personal choice.

After that, if he does chose to take part in a conflict, it should be more in line with a neutral neutral aligned char, or a neutral good aligned char.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I have something I would like to do before the siege begins, but I need Saurinae on, or for Hugo to control him for a period of time, to do what I plan.  It is going to be, creating an artificial plane.  It isn't godmodding, since it has been done before by other planeswalkers.

[wierd]

If you do it, there should be consequences, and the created plane should *not* be perfect.

[WillowLuman]

From "Resurrection - My Findings"
by Thari

Preface: The goddess originally gave me a tablet bearing instructions on the matter of making the dead walk again, as servants to one's will. This I soon figured out to be a test of faith. For the walking dead are abhorrent to my goddess; why should a being that can feel nothing, neither pain nor pleasure, be allowed to exist? I only ever created a few of them before I realized my mistake. They were thoroughly destroyed afterward.
Yet a natural body can only endure so much of the extremes of pain and pleasure. To continue experiencing the maximum of either, the body must be maintained regularly or repaired should it fail. On the subject of maintaining the body my notes are compiled in another tome. This book addresses the means of repairing a failed body.
The restoration of a deceased person to life has long been the fascination of mortals, elves and goblins included. For though we do not strive to prevent the effects of aging like other tribes, being already ageless, we still have an inborn fear of the cessation of our existance and we still grieve for the loss of friends. In the beginning I would like to make clear that, sadly, it is not possible to restore all of the dearly departed to life. The only method, as has so far been discovered by me, can only be used upon the most recently deceased, within approximately 36 hours of the time of death. The one and only true use of resurrection is for continuing the holy purpose of finding enlightenment by resolving the dichotomy between pain and pleasure. I should also warn that I suspect those who have passed on from the wears of time on their bodies may not be returned to life, though admittedly I have never been able to study a specimen who wasn't either ageless or youthful.
I do not wish to present the illusion of hope to anyone who may read this, so you have been thus warned of the limitations of this practice. Consider this then as an academic study, and remember always that the enlightened person knows that all things have their limits.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

It will start out unpopulated, but will get it's population the same way Mirrodin did.  It is mainly a meditation plane, but eventually, war will breakout between the populations of the different areas, ie. Vampires attacted to swamps will feast on humans in a different area, disputes over land shares, openings that creatures will be destroyed in unless the designated planeswalker terraforms it, curious weather patterns, and other stuff.

[Eric Blank]

As evidenced by the binding of athel to the clockwork body scene, he's perfectly OK with letting a spirit come back on its own, but totally against spirits circumventing the rules.  Giving a spirit additional options, if they want it, is perfectly OK.

That's exactly what it does anyway. According to the contract with the Goddess of Death, as I'd understood it, a person is dead whenever their body dies and they pass on, but does not distinguish between the body they were born to, and any unnatural bodies which also respond to them. Wasn't in the contract when either of us agreed to it, as it had never been done before or anticipated. The other contract (separate form Mental Thralldom; I got a new slab for being a good worshipper!) states that the "body" or whatnot that the soul is tied to is considered for all intents and purposes to be their body, and that the loss of the body the spirit currently possesses does not specifically invoke the rights of death, but merely that they immediately go on to possess any remaining bodies they may have. Why the goddess insisted you must act on your contract but at the time there was no compulsion for me to do anything for anyone, I don't know. Maybe she was having a hissy fit becuase another deity was involved with her sphere even tangentially and didn't yet know what to do about it other than piss eels all over the place and scream "SMITE!". I'd assume the deities would come to an agreement regarding the definition of a body at some point, but we're still only obligated to uphold the contracts as they existed when we agreed to it, which didn't include the possibility of a single soul possessing multiple bodies while still alive, or the specifics of what happens after losing even one of them. If the table had been destructible and was destroyed while Athel's other body was still servicable, what then? They're both his body according to one contract, and he still inhabits one of them so is still alive, but according to the other contract, his body had died, so he must be dead. I suspect divine lawsuit is imminent, in a few thousand years (because divine bureacracies can only be infinitely slower than mortal bureacracies, which are already horrendously slow), but we probably won't hear about it until a conclusion has been reached and they're done throwing stones at each other.

[wierd]

I was referring to internal consistency.

Things like physics, magical impact, metaphysical consequence, if any-- things like that.

Its and artificial world.  It should have obvious signs of that artificiality.  The lack of stars in the sky, for instance. Bizzare geology. The lack of an "outer space". Etc.

A natural plane of reality coalesces out of chaotic energy, and develops internally consisten rules as that energy settles.  An artificial one is forged into being with an imposed ruleset from an idealized vision of how a reality should be, rather than how it really is, or must be.  This is the source of the inconsistency. To produce an internally consistent plane of existence, you would have to let it cool from the chaos by itself... and that takes a lot of time. Something humans are not very good at: patience.  The forced cooling and congealing of the plane would have wide and far reaching manifestations, and all would point out clearly the artificial nature of that reality.

That's what I was getting at.

Eric:

Its a contentious issue.  While an artificial body is capable of holding a soul, it is not its "defacto" body, the one the goddess of birth and life stuck them in. It could be interperted either way though, and yes, its likely going to court right now.   as a precaution, I propose the following work around:

The person in question makes a living will, requesting either unnatural resurrection, thari style, or a clockwork body, or mummification. In the case of the latter, the droid is built and consecrated, but not activated.  The person then dies, at which point the will takes effect as their testament of intent. Necromancers like us have a signed will of intent that the ghost fully intends to return. To allow for the possibility that the spirit likes it better on the other side afterall, and doesn't really want to come back, we have a cooling off period of a few days in which the ghost may return and tell us to continue with the will.  If they don't show up, we are to presume they like it over there.

This allows the letter of the contract to be followed perfectly, and still let's us rebind the spirit unnaturally, in accordance with the doctrines of free will. 

The spirit *did* go to the other side, and *still* chose to return. Of the gods don't like that, they can fix heaven. Not our problem.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I was referring to internal consistency.

Things like physics, magical impact, metaphysical consequence, if any-- things like that.

Its and artificial world.  It should have obvious signs of that artificiality.  The lack of stars in the sky, for instance. Bizzare geology. The lack of an "outer space". Etc.

A natural plane of reality coalesces out of chaotic energy, and develops internally consisten rules as that energy settles.  An artificial one is forged into being with an imposed ruleset from an idealized vision of how a reality should be, rather than how it really is, or must be.  This is the source of the inconsistency. To produce an internally consistent plane of existence, you would have to let it cool from the chaos by itself... and that takes a lot of time. Something humans are not very good at: patience.  The forced cooling and congealing of the plane would have wide and far reaching manifestations, and all would point out clearly the artificial nature of that reality.

That's what I was getting at.

Actually, any plane that would be created through the shear force of will would need a type of 'power source,' and the physics, magical impact, metaphysical consequence, etc. would be drawn from the creator's memories ie. the plane they are most familiar with.  Stars would exist, but would instead be the outline of other planes, the geography would be how the planeswalker wanted it to look like, and the technology would be limited to an era before gunpowder, due to the ability to use magic pervading things.

When first created, the plane is nothing more than a bubble of space with essential gasses for life, and is then formed to the specifications of the planeswalker.

The necessary force of will is used to cool the chaos at a far quicker rate.  I am circumventing this by having multiple planeswalkers creating it, lessening the amount required.

[WillowLuman]

Charcter development!

Vemini had been a soldier all his life. Well, not exactly a soldier. A body guard. A kind of soldier anyway. Back in the day when Thari was Archdruid, his loyalty had been unbreakable, even compelling him to follow her into exile. Then she had found a way to break it herself. He had become embittered by that treason, by his long imprisonment, and most of all by all the things he was witness to. Eventually, though, the bitterness changed to numbness, and he was desensitized to tragedy.
Having been a soldier all his life, though, he needed orders. There were some orders that went without saying, like protect your comrades or kill the enemy, but he had to have someone who could say them. He could deal with any amount of horrific disaster, just as long as there was someone there to give orders afterward. That was all he needed. The smallest trace of order.

I assume the plane would be limited by the willpower of its creator.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I assume the plane would be limited by the willpower of its creator.

It would be, but that becomes a moot point with multiple planeswalkers, and a way to 'power' the plane to have it remain in existence. ie: Rath's touchstone, and Mirrodin's core.  I will use the latter method, without the phyrexis inside.

[Gizogin]

Cog Wrathhammer awoke in the hospital, momentarily having no idea where he was.  Then he remembered.  He tried to get up off his bed, but a sharp pain in his chest stopped him.  Dizzy with pain, he fell backwards again with a grunt.  Gizogin, having heard the noise, poked his head out from his workshop.

"Ah, you're awake," he said.  "Your injuries were worse than we originally thought; you're going to be here for a while.  Don't worry, you're not in any danger.  You just need to rest up, and take it easy for a while.  You'll be out of here within the week."

Cog grunted.  He'd been injured before, worse than this, and he knew that Gizogin was right.  You didn't get to be an old adventurer without knowing when to follow instructions.  Gizogin emerged from his workshop, and checked the clipboard at the base of Cog's bed.  He made a few notes on it, then replaced it and left the hospital.  Cog closed his eyes, and fell into a deep, dreamless sleep.

The two Gizogins met in a secluded area of the fortress to compare notes and keep each other up to date.  One told the other about the fluffballs and the steps being taken to contain them, and the other related the progress he'd made with Cog and the other patients.  The miners had begun to wake up, and most had already checked out and gone back to work.  Gizogin also told Gizogin about the new machine he'd been working on, which was progressing ahead of schedule.  One told the other that he was going to start writing a new book, this one focused on the Mk. X, to which the other heartily agreed.

[WillowLuman]

It is entirely possible to find a way to set up a universe so that it sustains itself, but I'd assume that any new plane created in the way you suggest is limited by the interrules of the Magic the Gathering Multiverse. Therefore, the laws of physics would have to be similar to the ones the creator came from, as entirely alien rules would be impossible for them to comprehend or imagine, since their minds are based on the rules of their home. The means of setting up a stable universe are beyond their comprehension, so they have to link it to a power source.

ninja'd by Gizogin

[Gizogin]

ninja'd by Gizogin

[CRITICAL SUCCESS!  My years of martial arts training have paid off!  All those hours spent training, meditating, honing my body and mind, they have all been worth it! ]