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[Blizzlord]

...and when you apply vaporizing rocks in the equation (especially if the gas ignites) you have one powerful; in unreliable, genocide machine.

[Loud Whispers]

A nuke disguised as a red button.

[Mr.Elendig]

A nuke disguised as a red lever.

[tahujdt]

Alright, I have some stuff. A catapult made with 1 well-crafted part, one exceptional part and one finely-crafted part. The weapon is manned by metalsmiths with no siege operating experience.

Shot 1, quartzite boulder: missed, no animals were in that one straight line at firing.

Shot 2, marble boulder: flew past the animals and slammed into the wall, shattered, not recoverable. I might've been seeing it wrong but I think it passed right on their tile and still missed.

Shot 3, marble boulder: passed right onto several animals' tiles and did nothing. Went into a wall and shattered.

I'm just going to call it now. Catapults are still useless.

Friendlies and dwarves aren't affected by catapults.

[Dorfimedes]

Don't catapults generate dust such as the kind caused by cave-ins?

I have never, ever seen a catapult generate cave-in dust, not even back in old versions.

I must be going crazy. I remember, at the very least, a graphical effect similar to that caused by a cave-in back in 40d. Right? Am I misremembering?

[khearn]

So, wouldn't a two-tile bridge work much better as a catapult in these versions? I haven't used siege weapons since 2d, and even then they were... rather limited in usefulness. I'm thinking a bridge loaded with anvils/bars/blocks of some sort and set to flip a certain way would be an easy way to turn most norma-size enemies into pulp, correct?

Bridges throw things random directions, and only a few tiles. You can't set them to flip a certain way.

[Urist Da Vinci]

Alright, I have some stuff. A catapult made with 1 well-crafted part, one exceptional part and one finely-crafted part. The weapon is manned by metalsmiths with no siege operating experience.

Shot 1, quartzite boulder: missed, no animals were in that one straight line at firing.

Shot 2, marble boulder: flew past the animals and slammed into the wall, shattered, not recoverable. I might've been seeing it wrong but I think it passed right on their tile and still missed.

Shot 3, marble boulder: passed right onto several animals' tiles and did nothing. Went into a wall and shattered.

I'm just going to call it now. Catapults are still useless.

Friendlies and dwarves aren't affected by catapults.

Friendlies and dwarves are affected by catapults ONLY if they are standing at the maximum range of the catapult and are on the same z-level. If you fire a catapult across a field and watch where the shots stop, and put a dwarf or pet there, it CAN get hit.

Don't catapults generate dust such as the kind caused by cave-ins?

I have never, ever seen a catapult generate cave-in dust, not even back in old versions.

I must be going crazy. I remember, at the very least, a graphical effect similar to that caused by a cave-in back in 40d. Right? Am I misremembering?

I have never seen catapults create cave-in dust either.

[DrKillPatient]

I'm really going to implement my idea. With being able to bring huge quantities of stone there much faster, legendary siege operators can cause a rain of stone to fall. Catapulted stone may not do much damage, plus the stone is destroyed, but this way you can recycle the stone and stones falling some z levels should cause some damage. and with a crew of legendaries, firing rate should be great. The only thing to worry about is flyers that don't get hit by falling objects.

This could have some interesting applications against fliers, actually. If you're firing catapults so that the stones drop down onto grounded enemies through small vertical tubes or somesuch, flying enemies would probably path up the tubes and get hit by falling rocks, or by the stone still in the air from the catapaults. Plus, if the vertical tubes are long enough and your catapault count is sufficient, they'll get killed in mid-air most of the time and their (presumably heavyish) corpses will fall back onto enemies.

I did some testing in the arena mode: killing giant cave swallows above goblins in a 1x1 chamber that guaranteed they'd get hit by the falling corpses*). The goblins were armored with a copper helm, breastplate, and shield, had a silver maul, and competent fighter/shield/armor/dodging/hammerman skills. If the goblins' level is considered level 0, the swallows were killed (adamantine axe to the head) and dropped from level 4. Combat log samples are below. It looks like this tactic might prove viable if the fliers could be killed reliably on the way up the tubes.

I am uncertain as to whether corpses missing limbs will do less damage. Does their weight change on limb removal? If so, keeping them intact through the use of blunt attacks would be to one's benefit (unless peppering goblins with disembodied fingers and toes is somehow useful).

Spoiler: (African or European?) Giant Cave Swallow corpse dropping (click to show/hide)

You hack Giant Cave Swallow 4 in the head [etc...]
Giant Cave Swallow 4 has been struck down. [it falls]
The Giant Cave Swallow 4's corpse strikes Goblin 3 in the lower body, bruising the muscle and bruising the guts through the small copper breastplate!
The Goblin 3 slams into an obstacle!
Goblin 3's left lower leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the muscle!
Goblin 3's left upper leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the muscle!
it  Goblin 3 in the right true ribs, but the attack is deflected by Goblin 3's small copper helm!
it  Goblin 3 in the right true ribs, but the attack is deflected by Goblin 3's small copper breastplate!

You hack Giant Cave Swallow 5 in the head [etc...]
Giant Cave Swallow 5 has been struck down. [it falls]
The Giant Cave Swallow 5's corpse strikes Goblin 3 in the left lower leg, shattering the bone!
Goblin 3's right lower arm skids along the ground, jamming the bone through the right elbow's muscle and shattering the right elbow's bone!
The Goblin 3 loses hold of the silver maul.
The Goblin 3 slams into an obstacle!
The Goblin 3 gives in to pain.

You hack Giant Cave Swallow 6 in the head [etc...]
Giant Cave Swallow 6 has been struck down. [it falls]
The Giant Cave Swallow 6's corpse strikes Goblin 3 in the right lower leg, shattering the bone!
Goblin 3's right lower leg skids along the ground, shattering the bone!
The Goblin 3 slams into an obstacle!

*thus, dodging was not factored into the test-- I was merely assessing the damage a falling cave swallow corpse could cause to a traditionally-armored goblin. It seems that armor will stop most major falling-corpse damage (lung-bruising is still possible, as evidenced by the bruising to the armored lower body by GCS 4). The limbs, however, are still fair game.

EDIT: Also, here's a semi-related idea: have a multi-leveled fortress entrance, with a bridge as each level's floor. Guide sieges into the top floor, killing them in whatever manner you'd like, and when the next siege comes along, lead them into the floor below and drop the first siege's remains onto them through the use of the bridge-floors. You can snowball this effect again and again for greater damage each time, eventually collecting the loot on the bottom floor.

[Garath]

I'm really going to implement my idea. With being able to bring huge quantities of stone there much faster, legendary siege operators can cause a rain of stone to fall. Catapulted stone may not do much damage, plus the stone is destroyed, but this way you can recycle the stone and stones falling some z levels should cause some damage. and with a crew of legendaries, firing rate should be great. The only thing to worry about is flyers that don't get hit by falling objects.

This could have some interesting applications against fliers, actually. If you're firing catapults so that the stones drop down onto grounded enemies through small vertical tubes or somesuch, flying enemies would probably path up the tubes and get hit by falling rocks, or by the stone still in the air from the catapaults. Plus, if the vertical tubes are long enough and your catapault count is sufficient, they'll get killed in mid-air most of the time and their (presumably heavyish) corpses will fall back onto enemies.

I did some testing in the arena mode: killing giant cave swallows above goblins in a 1x1 chamber that guaranteed they'd get hit by the falling corpses*). The goblins were armored with a copper helm, breastplate, and shield, had a silver maul, and competent fighter/shield/armor/dodging/hammerman skills. If the goblins' level is considered level 0, the swallows were killed (adamantine axe to the head) and dropped from level 4. Combat log samples are below. It looks like this tactic might prove viable if the fliers could be killed reliably on the way up the tubes.

I am uncertain as to whether corpses missing limbs will do less damage. Does their weight change on limb removal? If so, keeping them intact through the use of blunt attacks would be to one's benefit (unless peppering goblins with disembodied fingers and toes is somehow useful).

Spoiler: (African or European?) Giant Cave Swallow corpse dropping (click to show/hide)

You hack Giant Cave Swallow 4 in the head [etc...]
Giant Cave Swallow 4 has been struck down. [it falls]
The Giant Cave Swallow 4's corpse strikes Goblin 3 in the lower body, bruising the muscle and bruising the guts through the small copper breastplate!
The Goblin 3 slams into an obstacle!
Goblin 3's left lower leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the muscle!
Goblin 3's left upper leg takes the full force of the impact, bruising the muscle!
it  Goblin 3 in the right true ribs, but the attack is deflected by Goblin 3's small copper helm!
it  Goblin 3 in the right true ribs, but the attack is deflected by Goblin 3's small copper breastplate!

You hack Giant Cave Swallow 5 in the head [etc...]
Giant Cave Swallow 5 has been struck down. [it falls]
The Giant Cave Swallow 5's corpse strikes Goblin 3 in the left lower leg, shattering the bone!
Goblin 3's right lower arm skids along the ground, jamming the bone through the right elbow's muscle and shattering the right elbow's bone!
The Goblin 3 loses hold of the silver maul.
The Goblin 3 slams into an obstacle!
The Goblin 3 gives in to pain.

You hack Giant Cave Swallow 6 in the head [etc...]
Giant Cave Swallow 6 has been struck down. [it falls]
The Giant Cave Swallow 6's corpse strikes Goblin 3 in the right lower leg, shattering the bone!
Goblin 3's right lower leg skids along the ground, shattering the bone!
The Goblin 3 slams into an obstacle!

*thus, dodging was not factored into the test-- I was merely assessing the damage a falling cave swallow corpse could cause to a traditionally-armored goblin. It seems that armor will stop most major falling-corpse damage (lung-bruising is still possible, as evidenced by the bruising to the armored lower body by GCS 4). The limbs, however, are still fair game.

EDIT: Also, here's a semi-related idea: have a multi-leveled fortress entrance, with a bridge as each level's floor. Guide sieges into the top floor, killing them in whatever manner you'd like, and when the next siege comes along, lead them into the floor below and drop the first siege's remains onto them through the use of the bridge-floors. You can snowball this effect again and again for greater damage each time, eventually collecting the loot on the bottom floor.

thanks for considering the basics.

You can have several floors of catapults, or indeed balista, to shoot at a wall, thud into the wall and the amunition will drop down to the level-whatever, damaging anything in it's way. Probably not killing much, but it is something I think of as funny.

[Akura]

Change the material you're firing's gas state to the temperature of the average homeotherm (10067), and you've got yourself explosive ammo. Very volatile though, so have fun.

Not sure if that would work, for several reasons:

1. A dwarf carrying the rock would cause the rock to vaporize.

2. A particularly hot region might vaporize the rock.

3. A material in gas state at 10067°U would still only be 10067°U. A material that ignites at 10067°U would still be a source of !!Fun!!(and still solid), but you'd still have the problem from #1.

I think I remember there being a way to mod a material so that it slowly heats up to a certain point(probably the ambient temperature). [SPEC_HEAT], I think, and low melt temperature. Might be able to make a timed "firebomb" material this way.

[Garath]

Change the material you're firing's gas state to the temperature of the average homeotherm (10067), and you've got yourself explosive ammo. Very volatile though, so have fun.

Not sure if that would work, for several reasons:

1. A dwarf carrying the rock would cause the rock to vaporize.

2. A particularly hot region might vaporize the rock.

3. A material in gas state at 10067°U would still only be 10067°U. A material that ignites at 10067°U would still be a source of !!Fun!!(and still solid), but you'd still have the problem from #1.

I think I remember there being a way to mod a material so that it slowly heats up to a certain point(probably the ambient temperature). [SPEC_HEAT], I think, and low melt temperature. Might be able to make a timed "firebomb" material this way.

would be cool if you could make that a rection like "make napalm"

[Loud Whispers]

Change the material you're firing's gas state to the temperature of the average homeotherm (10067), and you've got yourself explosive ammo. Very volatile though, so have fun.

Not sure if that would work, for several reasons:

1. A dwarf carrying the rock would cause the rock to vaporize.

2. A particularly hot region might vaporize the rock.

3. A material in gas state at 10067°U would still only be 10067°U. A material that ignites at 10067°U would still be a source of !!Fun!!(and still solid), but you'd still have the problem from #1.

I think I remember there being a way to mod a material so that it slowly heats up to a certain point(probably the ambient temperature). [SPEC_HEAT], I think, and low melt temperature. Might be able to make a timed "firebomb" material this way.

1. That's why I added the 'volatile' part
2. 'volatile' - keep it underground, it'll never go off. Once fired, it sails through the air into the scorching biome - and once it hits something - it's effected by the biome and !!BEWM!!
3. Would it still cause damage? (I've not successfully or had reason to make many explosive things in DF that didn't involve cave ins before) I mean, adding syndromes would have the same effect... But who wouldn't want viral plasma?