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[Microcline]

Is there an agreed on name for games like Dwarf Fortress, Infiniminer, Minecraft, Ace of Spades, Terraria, and Starbound? (Worms, Cortex Command, and Roller Coster Tycoon could be considered to have <genre>-elements) "Sandbox" would be the most appropriate term, but it already refers to games like GTA or TES (although there is a lot of overlap between the the genres).  We've seen Doom-clones become FPSs, GTA-clones become sandboxes, and DotA-clones become MOBAs, and this seems to be the newest genre to emerge.  I know some of the more uncouth dialects of the Internet refer to them as "autism simulators", but there doesn't seem to be an actual name for them.  "Voxel game" seems inappropriate given that not all of them use voxels (or are even 3D).  I've heard "building game" get tossed around, but that seems a bit non-specific.  What do you guys think?

[Deon]

Indie games.

Best games ever. Not trying to copy something or follow a set of rules.

[Trapezohedron]

I am content with calling them sandbox games (except DF, which is very obviously a sim game), even if that sometimes overlaps with GTA and the like.

But, I'm pretty sure these games will get their own genre tag once there's enough of it in existence.

Oh, and yeah, Indie games.

[Rex_Nex]

Dwarf Fortress Games.

DFGs.

[fenrif]

"Indie" isn't a genre, or at least not a worthwhile one. It tells you nothing about the gameplay, the games quality, the people who made it, etc. If indie is a genre then so is "fun," "red," or any other random adjective. Plenty of indie games copy other games, and follow sets of rules. Plenty of indie games are horribly bug-ridden. Plenty of indie games are made by big studios. For just about every quality of "indieness" there are dozens of counter examples.

That aside you have a few wildly different games in your list there. So I'll break down what I think their genres are based on the core of their gameplay:

Ace of Spades I'm pretty sure is a FPS... Terrain deformation isn't exactly genre-defining.
RCT is a buisness management sim, or some other combination of those words.
Minecraft is a toy, though I guess if you were being generous you could say adventure or survival?
Terraria is probobly adventure.
Dwarf Fortress is an empire mangement game I guess? Though obviously with roguelike influences.
Worms is turn based strategy. Cortex command is (from what I can remember) a shooter?

Of course most works of fiction, film, game, etc fall into more than one genre category, so it's possible that all of these games somehow fit into some new genre, but it would help if you said what you think all these games have in common. If it's just terrain deformation then I'd argue that a single gameplay mechanic does not a genre make.

[darkrider2]

I think its called a World Builder game.

[Microcline]

Indie games.

Best games ever. Not trying to copy something or follow a set of rules.

I don't think that this would work.  If I were to state
"Dwarf Fortress
Minecraft
Terraria",
conclude with "Cave Story", "Aquaria", or "Overgrowth", and ask, "which of these does not belong?" it would be immediately obvious.  It'd be disadvantageous to pretend that indie games don't share certain mechanics with other genres (even if they do combine them or innovate).

That aside you have a few wildly different games in your list there. So I'll break down what I think their genres are based on the core of their gameplay:

Ace of Spades I'm pretty sure is a FPS... Terrain deformation isn't exactly genre-defining.
RCT is a buisness management sim, or some other combination of those words.
Minecraft is a toy, though I guess if you were being generous you could say adventure or survival?
Terraria is probobly adventure.
Dwarf Fortress is an empire mangement game I guess? Though obviously with roguelike influences.
Worms is turn based strategy. Cortex command is (from what I can remember) a shooter?

Of course most works of fiction, film, game, etc fall into more than one genre category, so it's possible that all of these games somehow fit into some new genre, but it would help if you said what you think all these games have in common. If it's just terrain deformation then I'd argue that a single gameplay mechanic does not a genre make.

I would argue that terrain destruction (at least the kind that has come to define games like Minecraft and Terraria) can be genre defining if it is a major feature for a number of games.  While we could call GTA a 3rd person shooter and a driving game and call TES a FPS and a WRPG, this doesn't preclude the sandbox genre from existing.  All of the games listed as being <genre> have the entire play as a lattice that can be freely destroyed and constructed, and mold their gameplay almost entirely around this feature.  The games listed as having <genre>-elements have a destructible play area as a feature, but either don't use a grid (Worms and Cortex Command) or have it as a gameplay-defining feature (RCT).

[fenrif]

I would argue that terrain destruction (at least the kind that has come to define games like Minecraft and Terraria) can be genre defining if it is a major feature for a number of games.  While we could call GTA a 3rd person shooter and a driving game and call TES a FPS and a WRPG, this doesn't preclude the sandbox genre from existing.  All of the games listed as being <genre> have the entire play as a lattice that can be freely destroyed and constructed, and mold their gameplay almost entirely around this feature.  The games listed as having <genre>-elements have a destructible play area as a feature, but either don't use a grid (Worms and Cortex Command) or have it as a gameplay-defining feature (RCT).

Well now we're getting into the discussion of when a gameplay mechanic becomes a genre. Red Faction had terrain deformation way back in 2001, and I'm sure there are games before that which used this idea too. Firsts of the genre? As I said, generally a work will belong to more than one genre. So I'm not saying this is definatly not a new genre, but does this then mean every new gameplay mechanic is it's own genre? Is the creative world-building of Minecraft a seperate genre from the destructive-only interactions of Worms? Are regenerating health FPS games a different sub-genre than health pickup FPS games? (I'd say they are, so I guess I'm agreeing that deformable terrain is a genre?)

This is actually kind of interesting because genre as applied to games is kind of unlike other forms of art. Gameplay elements/individual mechanics and how they relate to genre conventions isn't really something that you have in any other medium. Films generally have the narrative genre and cinematography genres (which are generally the same). Books have narrative, though I guess some people change up their writing style to ape another genre? But games raise so many more questions when discussing genre and genre conventions.

[miauw62]

I say sandbox games.
Not listening to anybody in this thread at all

[Deon]

I was a bit sarcastic when I just said "indie games", but also serious. They define their own genre.

Terraria is not an adventure game per se at all. It's a 2D platformer sandbox game with survival and builder aspects. In adventure games you explore a plot and solve puzzles. Adventure genre is close to quest genre, and Terraria is nowhere near there .

[Ninteen45]

Terrain deformation is merely a game mechanic, like Loadouts (WoW, Final Fantasy, Team Fortress 2, Fallout 1,2,3,NV), or double jumping.

Minecraft, Infinimer and Terraria are easily seen as similar genres, however I'd argue that Miner wars and Fortresscraft is another one from the genre, and Ace od Spades is a hybrid of the FPS and Genre we want to discuss.

I'd say that like the camera perspective AND violence based goals define FPS, the factors and mechanics of Exploration, social aspects, violence and resource gathering (from AoS-simple to Minecraft-complex) would define these games.

Multiplayer sandbox action games?

[Girlinhat]

I understand what's ultimately being discussed here.  It's the idea of "The main purpose of the game is allowing you to reshape the terrain while also having some gameplay and some challenge involved."  Minecraft lets you build all you want - it also lets you explore caves and find resources.  Terraria lets you build all you want - it also has fun dungeons and encourages multiplayer.  Infiniminer I assume works the same as Minecraft - I haven't played.  The overall theme here is "free range construction with a side of gameplay."

Construction, Sandbox, or Builder seem valid to me.  But it's worth saying that these are facets more than they are genres.  A lot of (most?) games span multiple genres.  FPS+RTS, or FPS+RPG, or whatever.  You can have FPS+Builder easily, as Minecraft almost is (it's first person and includes fighting, at least).  Or Simulator + Builder, as Dwarf Fortress uses both.

Generally, I'd say any game that allows you to remove and place terrain and buildings with little or no restrictions would get the "+ Builder" tagged onto its genre.

[fenrif]

I was a bit sarcastic when I just said "indie games", but also serious. They define their own genre.

Terraria is not an adventure game per se at all. It's a 2D platformer sandbox game with survival and builder aspects. In adventure games you explore a plot and solve puzzles. Adventure genre is close to quest genre, and Terraria is nowhere near there .

Define the indie genre then? Seriously, I've never seen anyone actually define the indie games genre without it falling apart upon any close analysis or scrutiny.

[miauw62]

I understand what's ultimately being discussed here.  It's the idea of "The main purpose of the game is allowing you to reshape the terrain while also having some gameplay and some challenge involved."  Minecraft lets you build all you want - it also lets you explore caves and find resources.  Terraria lets you build all you want - it also has fun dungeons and encourages multiplayer.  Infiniminer I assume works the same as Minecraft - I haven't played.  The overall theme here is "free range construction with a side of gameplay."

Construction, Sandbox, or Builder seem valid to me.  But it's worth saying that these are facets more than they are genres.  A lot of (most?) games span multiple genres.  FPS+RTS, or FPS+RPG, or whatever.  You can have FPS+Builder easily, as Minecraft almost is (it's first person and includes fighting, at least).  Or Simulator + Builder, as Dwarf Fortress uses both.

Generally, I'd say any game that allows you to remove and place terrain and buildings with little or no restrictions would get the "+ Builder" tagged onto its genre.

Hm, this sounds about right.
MULTIPLE GENRES FTW!

Also, neat that you say builder instead of sandbox, because i guess a sandbox can be alot of things that not neccesarily builder.

[Girlinhat]

Genre isn't really applicable anymore.  Used to be games were rather clearly defined.  Quake is FPS, clearly.  Age of Empires is RTS, clearly.  But a lot of newer games pick and choose things from different genres.  The term "Genre" generally defines an archetype of game, something that you've played before but this game has a different flavor.  White bread and Rye.  Both the bread genre, just made different.

More accurate now would be "facet" instead.  You can have games like Halo or Minecraft (roughly compared), white bread and a cheese pastry.  Both have bread (you play via first person) but one is different because it's also a builder.  Yeah my food analogy is failing now.  Either way, the majority of indie-type games cross genres and mix and match for some very fun gameplay.  It's mainly the big companies that keep to old single-style games.  Observe: Starcraft 2, all of Halo, Assassin's Creed, World of Warcraft...  All the big name games are pretty strict on one genre.  Smaller company games tend to cross more, but that's a whole other argument.  Point being, more and more games are blurring genre lines, and that means it's probably time to start categorizing them differently.