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Author Topic: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?  (Read 6839 times)

Nkosi_SW

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Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« on: May 14, 2012, 12:32:44 am »

My fort's military are not trained up yet, so I've protected the entrance with a trapped corridor.  Unfortunately the vast bulk of invading forces never advance down the corridor, I presume because their leaders are caught in cage traps near the entrance.  I have a war dog nearby in line of sight of the invaders, chained behind fortifications and glass windows, and with an open (though convoluted) path to the rear of the trap corridor to act as bait, but this seems to be having no effect.   :(

I've searched for an answer, and while many people talk about enemy forces hanging around their beloved leaders, the experienced people still seem to be including bait animals in their advanced trap designs, so I thought it would work.  Do bait animals only work if the enemy squad leaders are killed, but not if they're trapped?

I'd like to keep the cage traps if possible so I have captured goblins to act as involuntary "military advisers" to train my soldiers, and I do need to clear the entrance so I can get much needed supplies from the caravans.

Would really appreciate some advice on how to make the trap corridor work, as most of my enthusiastic but still-wet-behind-the-ears military were tragically lost trying (and barely succeeding) in clearing the entrance of the first siege, and now the remainder have been cut down desperately fighting to shift an immobile ambush of Goblin lashers.  :'(
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 12:56:13 am by Nkosi_SW »
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crazysheep

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2012, 12:43:06 am »

If you have marksdwarves, consider making a tower to clear out the remaining goblin forces with boltspam. Or cut down on the amount of cage traps by replacing some of them with weapon traps.
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crekit

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2012, 12:47:18 am »

Glass isn't transparent. They can't see your war dog through it.
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Nkosi_SW

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 12:51:01 am »

If you have marksdwarves, consider making a tower to clear out the remaining goblin forces with boltspam. Or cut down on the amount of cage traps by replacing some of them with weapon traps.

Unfortunately my neophyte marksdwarves are now all dead.  And like I said, I'd really like to keep the cage traps if possible to maximise the number of "military advisers".

Glass isn't transparent. They can't see your war dog through it.

Sorry, I should have been clearer (no pun intended :P).  They are green glass windows behind fortifications.  I've updated my OP to clarify.

Does anyone know if bait animals still work?  If so, what could I be doing wrong with mine, and if not, is there any other safe way to lure enemies forward when their leaders are trapped?  Thanks in advance for the much-needed help.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 01:49:51 am by Nkosi_SW »
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 01:14:39 am »

How many tiles away from the dog is the closest goblin? It should be less than 20.

Could the goblin path to the dog, or is it behind a locked door? There should be a path.

If there are no elite goblin archers, you can safely carve a fortification in a rock wall from the inside and then shoot at goblins from it.

Nkosi_SW

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 01:33:39 am »

How many tiles away from the dog is the closest goblin? It should be less than 20.
4 tiles away.

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Could the goblin path to the dog, or is it behind a locked door? There should be a path.
The goblins can definitely path to the dog.  It's a winding path, but with only one bridge and one door between the goblins and the bait dog.  The bridge is down (I triple-checked) and the door is not locked (in fact, it's being kept open most of the time by an animal standing in that square).

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If there are no elite goblin archers, you can safely carve a fortification in a rock wall from the inside and then shoot at goblins from it.
There's only soil around the entrance, so I can't carve, I don't have any marksdwarves left ATM, and I'd like a more permenant, safer solution (there might be elite goblin archers in the next siege).

Most of all, I just want to understand why the bait animal method isn't working...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 01:51:26 am by Nkosi_SW »
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Dorfimedes

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 01:50:36 am »

Did a tower cap grow in the corridor they're supposed to be going through? I'm not sure if they can grow on items, but it might be obscured by junk, if there is one at all. You also might try digging around the bridge to bypass it, I don't know what that would do but sometimes you just have to work off of hunches until something happens. Post the map. We love maps.
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2012, 01:57:42 am »

What happens if you trick a dwarf into walking into the dog's room?

What weapon is the goblin using?

Nkosi_SW

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2012, 02:24:00 am »

Did a tower cap grow in the corridor they're supposed to be going through? I'm not sure if they can grow on items, but it might be obscured by junk, if there is one at all.
No, most of the passages between them are stone, and the areas of soil are simply passed through vertically with constructed stone stairs or are paved over.  There are no subterranean trees growing in the path.

What happens if you trick a dwarf into walking into the dog's room?
The dwarf runs away when it sees the goblins.  The goblins don't move.

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What weapon is the goblin using?
The goblins in this ambush are all lashers.
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thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2012, 03:06:41 am »

Guarding their leaders, shoot them with anything to make them run off
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Garath

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2012, 04:10:50 am »

I always put some weapon traps and preferably upright spear traps before the first row of cage traps. Most leaders can dodge past that, but their followers get slaughtered unless they move on. To encourage moving on I have a dog or other animal chained behind fortifications at the first u-turn where they can actually easily reach it. There are so many useless animals, I don't mind if a puppy or two bites the dust. This won't solve your problem, but should prevent it from happening again
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2012, 04:38:06 am »

Unchain the war dog, or send another one. Wardog will run to the gobbos and should make them move (and will quickly die to a whip). The lone dwarf, sent for collecting a cage, should also make them move, but if the path is too convoluted then the dwarf's range of vision/action  may be slightly bigger than the goblins, and they need a moment to warm up before the chase. Dwarfs run away too quickly.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2012, 02:38:08 pm »

Get better bait. Something in front of the goblins, that runs away. Bring about 3 of them, and they usually won't all die before luring the goblins deeper into the bowels of whatever you have lying in wait.

vjek

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2012, 02:59:54 pm »

In my experience, goblin attack squads need live bait to pursue.  I have a gaggle of geese, chickens, and peahens sitting at the end of my trap hallway to bait them in.  It works great.

However, even then, I've seen it where after a squad leader is killed (either due to bugged spawning at the map edge, or atomsmashed, or melted) the squad will remain for an entire season before giving up, ignoring the bait.

I consider it a bug, personally.  I've added NOFEAR (with and without going through a regen) to goblins to try and encourage them, and it doesn't make any difference, in my experience.   With or without NOFEAR, goblins without a leader just stand there.

SharkForce

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Re: Trap corridor not working - how do I tempt enemies in?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2012, 12:33:32 am »

you could try putting some weapon traps in the front to make the leader dodge off a narrow portion of land, drop down, get cage trapped, and include a path which leads to the leader's new location... and have that path to the cage traps below be full of traps.

you will likely need an abundance of training weapons of course.
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