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[abculatter_2]

Anyone else seen these two documentaries? They're on Youtube:

The Secret of Oz (Shorter, updated sequel to The Money Masters, but isn't as in-depth)
The Money Masters (The original)

If you have a few hours (the shorter one is 2 hours long) this is DEFINITELY worth your time to watch, it's incredibly enlightening...

If you need more info on it, the trailer is here:
Trailer

If you prefer text, here's a synopsis;

Our money system is flawed. And no, it's not something to do with the bills, but with how they're given value.

Currently, there is only one institution, in the entire world, which can legally print US dollar bills. And that, is the Federal Reserve.

However, the Federal Reserve, despite its name, is actually a private corporation, owned by private shareholders. Who are, by the way, not involved in the government.
In fact, the only involvement the Federal Reserve has with the government is that the president elects two of its board members.

Don't believe me? Go to a phone book, and try to find the Federal Reserve under the government section. Then, try to find it under the business section, under 'Federal'.

So... If the Federal Reserve has complete control over our money, and its value... Who owns it?

[Leafsnail]

“The solution is the secret that’s been hidden from us for just over 100 years – ever since the time when author L. Frank Baum wrote “The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.”

Tell us what it is please.  I don't think I can handle 5 and a half hours of rambling conspiracy theorising (even if I like the way it reminds me of an MGS cutscene).

[kaijyuu]

If I'm reading his quote synopsis right, the answer is this:

But why can’t we just do it again? Why can’t we just issue our own money, debt free? That, my friends, is the answer. Talk about reform! That’s the only reform that will make a huge difference to everyone’s life – even worldwide.

Which is nutty for all the obvious reasons.

[abculatter_2]

If I'm reading his quote synopsis right, the answer is this:

But why can’t we just do it again? Why can’t we just issue our own money, debt free? That, my friends, is the answer. Talk about reform! That’s the only reform that will make a huge difference to everyone’s life – even worldwide.

Which is nutty for all the obvious reasons.

That's pretty much it, really. And what is nutty about our Government printing its own money, instead of borrowing it (with interest, I might add) from an external source?

[kaijyuu]

Because this happens:




The more money you print, the less each individual dollar is "worth." If you just print a hell of a lot of dollar bills and hand it to debtors, you'll have a ruined economy due to massive inflation and a lot of angry debtors since you paid them with now nigh worthess paper. The paper's good for kids to play with, I guess.


EDIT: Better picture.

[Leafsnail]

That doesn't seem to be the "secret", though (rather his way of solving the secret).  The secret that the video seemed to be getting at before I got bored and turned it off was that the Federal Reserve is a private company that magically turns all printed money to debt and keeps America in debt even if it pays off its debts.  Or something.

[GlyphGryph]

I miss read this as the secret of Orz, and was very disappointed.

[abculatter_2]

That doesn't seem to be the "secret", though (rather his way of solving the secret).  The secret that the video seemed to be getting at before I got bored and turned it off was that the Federal Reserve is a private company that magically turns all printed money to debt and keeps America in debt even if it pays off its debts.  Or something.

Yes. This is one of his biggest points. All money is borrowed from the Federal Reserve, or a bank, with interest. Then it goes into circulation.
Also, I re-wrote the synopsis. The old one was crap and I was honestly just trying to be lazy, but hopefully this one's a bit better.

The more money you print, the less each individual dollar is "worth." If you just print a hell of a lot of dollar bills and hand it to debtors, you'll have a ruined economy due to massive inflation and a lot of angry debtors since you paid them with now nigh worthess paper. The paper's good for kids to play with, I guess.


EDIT: Better picture.

Yes, the solution isn't to print MORE money, it's to print JUST ENOUGH money, and not print any more, except to account for population growth and money destruction. That's another important point he stresses; It's not what backs the money that matters, it's who controls its quantity.

[RedKing]

The Fed Reserve has been a favorite target of Ron Paul/Glenn Beck/Tea Party/assorted-black-helicopter-types the last year or two. One of my crazy-ass religious fundamentlalist co-workers tried pawning that same documentary off on me a few months back. He also was crying doom a month or so ago, saying that Obama had declared himself dictator for life.

I'm hesitant to remind him that if all this is true, we *do* work for the Emperor's finest stormtroopers, y'know...oh and BTW, TK-421 needs a new blaster pack down on level 7.

[abculatter_2]

The Fed Reserve has been a favorite target of Ron Paul/Glenn Beck/Tea Party/assorted-black-helicopter-types the last year or two. One of my crazy-ass religious fundamentlalist co-workers tried pawning that same documentary off on me a few months back. He also was crying doom a month or so ago, saying that Obama had declared himself dictator for life.

I'm hesitant to remind him that if all this is true, we *do* work for the Emperor's finest stormtroopers, y'know...oh and BTW, TK-421 needs a new blaster pack down on level 7.

lol... That, I gotta say, is some pretty funny shit...

No, Obama is not Dictator for Life, though the Federal Reserve IS a privately owned corporation, which is the important part. It's not the government at all, it's whoever is in control of the Federal Reserve, and the other big banks.

To quote the new synopsis:

Don't believe me? Go to a phone book, and try to find the Federal Reserve under the government section. Then, try to find it under the business section, under 'Federal'.

[kaijyuu]

Yes, the solution isn't to print MORE money, it's to print JUST ENOUGH money, and not print any more, except to account for population growth and money destruction.

Okay, say we go through with this.

1) You still have massive inflation, even if you put a lid on it.
2) You still screwed over your debtors.



If we wanna be dicks, we could always just declare our debts null and void, and if anyone's unhappy with that we'd just wink and point toward our military. But I don't think we want to be dicks.

[Leafsnail]

To quote the new synopsis:

Don't believe me? Go to a phone book, and try to find the Federal Reserve under the government section. Then, try to find it under the business section, under 'Federal'.

That's not the problem here.

If we wanna be dicks, we could always just declare our debts null and void, and if anyone's unhappy with that we'd just wink and point toward our military. But I don't think we want to be dicks.

There is the issue that America is dependant on foreign trade (especially for stuff like oil), like most other countries.  It probably wouldn't work out very well even if you were completely prepared to be dicks.

[Aqizzar]

To be perfectly fair, printing money to inflate your currency value enough to wash away your national debt is exactly what most of South America did during the 20th century.  And lust look how well it turned out for them.

The Fed Reserve has been a favorite target of Ron Paul/Glenn Beck/Tea Party/assorted-black-helicopter-types the last year or two.

I find this interesting, because this "documentary" is in favor of printing more money (judging by the thread anyway, I'm not watching that crap), while the Paulites and such are always up in arms about the Fed printing too much money and how America should have exactly as much currency in circulation as its gold bullion or some shit.

[abculatter_2]

To be perfectly fair, printing money to inflate your currency value enough to wash away your national debt is exactly what most of South America did during the 20th century.  And lust look how well it turned out for them.

The Fed Reserve has been a favorite target of Ron Paul/Glenn Beck/Tea Party/assorted-black-helicopter-types the last year or two.

I find this interesting, because this "documentary" is in favor of printing more money (judging by the thread anyway, I'm not watching that crap), while the Paulites and such are always up in arms about the Fed printing too much money and how America should have exactly as much currency in circulation as its gold bullion or some shit.

This documentary isn't in favor of printing more money, it's in favor of getting rid of how we make money today, and taking back the government's right to print its own, debt-free money. The way things are now, the only debt-free money we have is coins.

[Aqizzar]

To be perfectly fair, printing money to inflate your currency value enough to wash away your national debt...

This documentary isn't in favor of printing more money, it's in favor of getting rid of how we make money today, and taking back the government's right to print its own, debt-free money.

What part did I get wrong?

Dude, it's not that we didn't get the message, we did.  We're calling the message nonsense.  And now you've expanded it to coins, thinking that metallic discs have some kind of "intrinsic value" no doubt, oh boy.