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[Mudcrab]

Okay so twice now I have luckily had a weapon smith enter a mood and create a supposedly awesome hammer for my military to use.

1 Platinum Warhammer and 1 Gold.

Thing is neither of them actually worked that well. I have heard that the difference between steel and silver warhammers is minute, so does density really affect a blunt weapons effectiveness? (obv it does, but to what extent)

I was really disappointed with the platinum warhammer, as I believe it is supposedly the heaviest metal. My dwarf really didn't wreck shit up enough with it, it didn't stand out at all.

[Hyndis]

Blunt weapons don't seem that useful overall. An axe or sword seems to be far more effective than a hammer, because with a chopping weapon you can remove limbs and also cause bleeding. Anything with blood will then die from blood loss, even if its a massive creature. Death by a thousand papercuts.

A hammer will only kill if it crushes the brain, and some creatures have extremely thick skulls. The larger the creature the less effective the hammer is.

[slothen]

Blunt weapons are better now that dwarves will go for headshots once something is incapacitated.  However, they aren't as cool as 40d, when strength wasn't capped and stuff literally exploded with a single hit, and creatures were sent flying across the screen from blunt attacks.  A platinum warhammer should be the best, and gold should still be better than any weapons-grade metal.    What exactly was unimpressive about the weapons?

[NW_Kohaku]

Platinum is extremely dense, and the size of the hammer is fixed, which means that it has more mass when you swing those hammers.

The damage a weapon can deal is presumably a function of linear momentum (Mass * Velocity) so having a more massive hammer means a hammer capable of dealing more damage at the same velocity.

However, your dwarf has to be strong enough to be capable of swinging that platinum hammer at near-maximum velocity in order for that to really matter.  If a hammer is too massive, the dwarf won't be able to swing it very fast, and that mass will be wasted.

Try to make sure your platinum hammer goes to the strongest dwarf you can train.

[Sadrice]

Excessive weight will slow the dwarf down, especially if they aren't very strong, resulting in fewer attacks per unit time, and I think it might affect dodging too.  To the pump gym!

[Friendstrange]

Blunt weapons may seem inferior to edged weapons.

But if you are on an evil biome they are lifesavers. All those invaders you killed and chopped off to bits? Yeah, they are gonna raise, along with all the bits you chop off.

A blunt weapon is a Zombie-killing squad´s best friend, right next to full steel armor. Gaunlets and Helm mandatory unless you want your hammeres to be unable to grasp their two-handed weapons.
If I remember correctly Hammers are two-handed and maces are one-handed, or at lest maces dont suffer a penalty from being used with a shield.
Do correct me if Im wrong.

[scamtank]

Do correct me if Im wrong.

Maces are twice as large (in volume, not size requirements) and their contact area is exactly double compared to war hammers. That's it.

I haven't tried truncheoning the undead hordes yet, but since they collapse after some nebulous number of tissue damage rather than [THOUGHT] bodypart destruction... shit, why haven't I tried that yet.

[FalseDead]

Do correct me if Im wrong.

Maces are twice as large (in volume, not size requirements) and their contact area is exactly double compared to war hammers. That's it.

I haven't tried truncheoning the undead hordes yet, but since they collapse after some nebulous number of tissue damage rather than [THOUGHT] bodypart destruction... shit, why haven't I tried that yet.

Cutting Works better long run by reducing the zombie into ineffectual pieces, but the swordsman have to have armor and stamina

Blunt works better in the Short by insuring that you aren't swarmed by small pieces, however a intact zombie has a better chance of wrestling you to death than those small pieces, also a Blunt dwarf needs to be strong, and will tire faster, meaning yet again,  More likely to be wrestled to death....

Spears work wonders in place of hammers

Most of the damage will be pierce which will keep the zombie intact and they are neither strength nor stamina intensive, So peices will be severed but those will be fairly easy to deal with

[Kamamura]

The damage a weapon can deal is presumably a function of linear momentum (Mass * Velocity) so having a more massive hammer means a hammer capable of dealing more damage at the same velocity.

I think you are wrong here. Damage of an impact weapon should not depend on momentum, but on kinetic energy the weapon transfers on impact. The formula for kinetic energy is E=1/2mv^2, where m is mass and v is velocity. That's  why velocity is much more important than mass.

That explains that real life medieval weapons were always in reasonable weight range (two handed sword up to 3 kg, one handed sword 1.8 kg or so, warhammer I don't know), because the speed of the swing is much more important than mass (that's also why the huge fantasy hammers and axes are bollocks).

That's also why a small bullet can do such incredible damage to human body.

[Mudcrab]

However, your dwarf has to be strong enough to be capable of swinging that platinum hammer at near-maximum velocity in order for that to really matter.  If a hammer is too massive, the dwarf won't be able to swing it very fast, and that mass will be wasted.

Im guessing this was the problem, as I acquired these weapons before I realised how important a dwarfs attributes where, and how they could be checked on the thoughts and preferences screen

[Friendstrange]

Spears work wonders in place of hammers

Most of the damage will be pierce which will keep the zombie intact and they are neither strength nor stamina intensive, So peices will be severed but those will be fairly easy to deal with

Except spears will take quite a while to bring the undead down. Bleeding and damage to internal organs does nothing to them.
I had a fresh undead goblin battle a swordwarf. The swordwarf tore the undead goblin´s heart, stomach, kidney, hacked his left front tooth, right arm and tore several nerves and main arteries before a second zombie caught up and together with the other zombie (which was still perfectly fine) wrestled her to death.
And these were just regular "oh hey a dead body lets reanimate it" evil biome zombies, not evil sentient cloud/mist/fog thralls.
I cant imagine a spear would do better.

Best way to kill a zombie imo is break all its bones.
Incidentally, is there any way to train stamina?
Even better,a way to train will? I try to have only iron-willed soldiers but when those all die horrifically to undead giant thrips I get the next expendable dwarf with some combat skill.

Im guessing this was the problem, as I acquired these weapons before I realised how important a dwarfs attributes where, and how they could be checked on the thoughts and preferences screen

Ah, if only you could see their atributes in the military screen. Would make life so much simpler.

[NW_Kohaku]

The damage a weapon can deal is presumably a function of linear momentum (Mass * Velocity) so having a more massive hammer means a hammer capable of dealing more damage at the same velocity.

I think you are wrong here. Damage of an impact weapon should not depend on momentum, but on kinetic energy the weapon transfers on impact. The formula for kinetic energy is E=1/2mv^2, where m is mass and v is velocity. That's  why velocity is much more important than mass.

That explains that real life medieval weapons were always in reasonable weight range (two handed sword up to 3 kg, one handed sword 1.8 kg or so, warhammer I don't know), because the speed of the swing is much more important than mass (that's also why the huge fantasy hammers and axes are bollocks).

That's also why a small bullet can do such incredible damage to human body.

Was it you who had this exact same discussion with me in the FotF thread a while ago?

Anyway, even if you argue that's what should happen, what's relevant to the discussion at hand is what is in the game. 

So, are you willing to do testing to find out?

[Hyndis]

Chopping up a big zombie into many smaller zombies gives you more zombies overall, but the threat level of each zombie is far less, and so the combined threat level of the many smaller zombies is much less than the single big original zombie.

For example, an ogre zombie can do an enormous amount of damage. An ogre zombie hacked apart with axes and swords will be have the reanimated parts be much smaller than the entire ogre. Size is a very important factor in combat. This is why a zombie chicken can be dispatched even by an untrained, unarmored peasant in one hit.

[Mudcrab]

Chopping up a big zombie into many smaller zombies gives you more zombies overall, but the threat level of each zombie is far less, and so the combined threat level of the many smaller zombies is much less than the single big original zombie.

For example, an ogre zombie can do an enormous amount of damage. An ogre zombie hacked apart with axes and swords will be have the reanimated parts be much smaller than the entire ogre. Size is a very important factor in combat. This is why a zombie chicken can be dispatched even by an untrained, unarmored peasant in one hit.

Yeah but at the same time due to the mechanics of combat in DF when more enemies are attacking you they get more opportunities, when you take your turn to hit they each have their own strikes which greatly increases the chances of receiving a crippling strike or an outright brain tearing smash to the face.

Which is really quite realistic if you ask me

[Hyndis]

If the size of the creature is small enough due to liberal use of axes and swords, it doesn't take very much to defend against it. Even cloth hoods and cloaks might be enough to defend against it.

Metal armor and steel helmets should make your dwarves nearly immune to smaller undead. Ogre zombies will still be able to tear a dwarf apart regardless of armor, but a zombie ogre hand? Probably would just be deflected even if the dwarf is unconscious.