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Author Topic: Masterwork DF Suggestions (Guild-System Discussion continues here)  (Read 35911 times)

Meph

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2012, 12:53:48 am »

Hey, saw your thread and the devlog note, congrats about that. :)

My views upon modding do differ from the simulation point of view though. I treat DF as a strategy game, ignoring (most) realism. I try to keep realistic things in, yes, but if they dont fit a nice game balancing, then they will get scrapped. The opposite is true for unrealistic things, if they do work nicely as a game mechanic, I put them in.

But your imput would greatly help me setting up an idea for the glass industry. Since the glass forge already does what the carpenter does, only with glass, the only things left are:
Weapons, Ammo, Armor, Shields, Mechanisms, Querns, Millstones, Crafts/Toys.
Also a new form of glass would be nice. Clear, Crystal, Green... and ? Volcanic Glass, can only be made with magma access ? Does this sound about right, because of the high temperatures needed ? If you could just give me some RL-ideas to work with, that would be great. :) I am also very biased because of Morrowind and Oblivion, with their weird green glass armor and weapons. And the Amber ones from Shivering Isles. Anyway, I digress.
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Uristocrat

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2012, 06:15:44 am »

Hey, saw your thread and the devlog note, congrats about that. :)

My views upon modding do differ from the simulation point of view though. I treat DF as a strategy game, ignoring (most) realism. I try to keep realistic things in, yes, but if they dont fit a nice game balancing, then they will get scrapped. The opposite is true for unrealistic things, if they do work nicely as a game mechanic, I put them in.

But your imput would greatly help me setting up an idea for the glass industry. Since the glass forge already does what the carpenter does, only with glass, the only things left are:
Weapons, Ammo, Armor, Shields, Mechanisms, Querns, Millstones, Crafts/Toys.
Also a new form of glass would be nice. Clear, Crystal, Green... and ? Volcanic Glass, can only be made with magma access ? Does this sound about right, because of the high temperatures needed ? If you could just give me some RL-ideas to work with, that would be great. :) I am also very biased because of Morrowind and Oblivion, with their weird green glass armor and weapons. And the Amber ones from Shivering Isles. Anyway, I digress.

Thanks, I had lots of help & encouragement from Bohandes, NW_Kohaku and others.

Well, I mostly know about RL glass used for windows.  We just cut & temper it.  Oh, and there's laminated glass, but dwarves don't know how to make that.  And I'm not sure why they'd want safety glass, anyhow.  I guess they could learn to temper glass, but that just makes it safer when it breaks (tiny pieces, not big, sharp, nasty shards), so I don't see an in-game use.

I'm sure you can make toys, containers and the like out of glass.  Possibly weapons, as well.  When glass breaks, especially tempered glass, there are a lot of pointy little pieces that leave behind painful slivers if you're not careful.  But that only gives rise to irritation, not damage.  Volcanic glass is just called obsidian, which you're already familiar with.  We do have other kinds, but I doubt you want to know about the various silver coatings that tint windows for insulation.  Oh, you can also make patterened glass that's hard to see through (obscure, rain, etc.) not that it helps dwarves any.  Actually annealing glass is pretty cool:  it comes out on a bed of molten tin, which dwarves would probably love to watch.  But it seems like they have glassblowers shape everything, and that process is only used to make big, flat sheets.

If you want to weaponize it, drop it on someone.  That would be seriously dangerous.  I can imagine it making pretty nasty projectiles, too, having dodged pieces of trim being thrown into the dumpster.  Depending on how careful you were with it and the force it was launched with, glass bolts are not inconceivable.  Just don't let them break while you're using them....  There's a good reason why we require eye protection.  Glass + wood should be able to make swords just like the obsidian ones, given that the RL weapon they're based on is a stick with obsidian shards sticking out (and obsidian == volcanic glass).  I can't imagine glass used as armor or shields, except encrusted glass "gems" as decoration.  Querns?  Millstones?  No way.  No mechanisms either.  Any little scratch creates a weak point where glass will break if enough force is applied.  If I picture a mechanism as a gear or something, it would probably snap off whenever something got jammed.

But you're right, Oblivion and Skyrim and such have weird magical glass stuff.  They also have weird forging recipes that make it look like they let some random hobo decide on the recipes :)  So, if you want to give glass some quasi-realistic ability, have people who get attacked with it have some weird syndrome that causes intermittent pain.  Glass slivers suck.
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You could have berries on the rocks and the dwarves would say it was "berry gneiss."
You should die horribly for this. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Meph

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2012, 08:42:43 am »

Ok, thanks for the lengthy answer, I will consider it when I do something with glass. And I did not know that volcanic glass = obsidian, I thought there was some process to make it from obsidian, refine it in some way...

Oh, and I have this for the crystal glass trees that can break when being felled and affect your woodcutter (2nd cavern)

   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:WOOD:VAPORWOOD_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:glass splitter]
      [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:glass splitter]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
      [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:10000] orig was 12000
   [TREE:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:WOOD]
   [PREFSTRING:glass splitters]
   [TREE_TILE:5]
   [SYNDROME]
   [SYN_NAME:splinters]
   [SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON][SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:UNDEAD]
   [SYN_INHALED]
      [CE_BLEEDING:SEV:500:PROB:100:START:1:PEAK:10:END:3000]
      [CE_COUGH_BLOOD:SEV:500:PROB:100:START:1:PEAK:100:END:3000]
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2012, 10:38:09 am »

Ability to paint shields with emblems or images, and the choice to put certain improvemnts on weapons and armor
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GaxkangtheUnbound

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2012, 10:55:05 am »

Perhaps frost giants could drop a sort of enchanted ice-crystal glass that can be turned into powerful gem weapons and armor? It seems like a good way to combat the frost giants.
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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2012, 02:52:21 pm »

All the glass ideas look good.  Also I like the extra skin drops, but when I was making extra drops for meat in preperation for the return of eating to the game I noticed they wouldn't stack with other meat from the same animal even when named the same, so I named them for different cuts.  I hope you get the skin working the way you like though.
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Maybe that the dwarves never died and everyone is just shunning them.
"Wait, what are you doing?  I don't want to go in there!  No, I'm still alive, you can't do this to me!  Is Anybody listening?  Hello... Can someone let me out?  Help me!  Is anyone there?  I'm running out of air!"

Uristocrat

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2012, 02:54:02 pm »

Ok, thanks for the lengthy answer, I will consider it when I do something with glass. And I did not know that volcanic glass = obsidian, I thought there was some process to make it from obsidian, refine it in some way...

Oh, and I have this for the crystal glass trees that can break when being felled and affect your woodcutter (2nd cavern)

   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:WOOD:VAPORWOOD_TEMPLATE]
      [STATE_NAME:ALL_SOLID:glass splitter]
      [STATE_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:glass splitter]
      [PREFIX:NONE]
      [MAT_FIXED_TEMP:10000] orig was 12000
   [TREE:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:WOOD]
   [PREFSTRING:glass splitters]
   [TREE_TILE:5]
   [SYNDROME]
   [SYN_NAME:splinters]
   [SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON][SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:UNDEAD]
   [SYN_INHALED]
      [CE_BLEEDING:SEV:500:PROB:100:START:1:PEAK:10:END:3000]
      [CE_COUGH_BLOOD:SEV:500:PROB:100:START:1:PEAK:100:END:3000]

Splinter, not splitter, but very interesting :)  I can tell you that they are truly annoying as hell.
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You could have berries on the rocks and the dwarves would say it was "berry gneiss."
You should die horribly for this. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Meph

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2012, 06:15:34 pm »

English not my first language, excuse the lapse ;)

FrostGiants will drop an item that will be refined into a new material, most likely called Frostbrand, and is a weapons/armor grade material far above everything else, but below adamantine.

@hugo: Decorations I do plan, but how could I do images or heraldic emblems ? I can only use the improvement types the game offers, with rings of, spikes of, covered with, banded with... thats it, as far as I know. The images that highly skilled dwarves add in decorations I cant do with custom reaction.... Or did you figure out a way for this ?

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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2012, 06:21:10 pm »

English not my first language, excuse the lapse ;)

FrostGiants will drop an item that will be refined into a new material, most likely called Frostbrand, and is a weapons/armor grade material far above everything else, but below adamantine.

@hugo: Decorations I do plan, but how could I do images or heraldic emblems ? I can only use the improvement types the game offers, with rings of, spikes of, covered with, banded with... thats it, as far as I know. The images that highly skilled dwarves add in decorations I cant do with custom reaction.... Or did you figure out a way for this ?
Non-exsistant creature that has materials named in the solid form, then you use COVERED

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You use those named materials from that creature. So you get "it is covered with pictures of elves" or some such. Plus if you make the non exsistant creature you might get dwarves that like art :P
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Meph

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2012, 06:43:55 pm »

Uh... fancy solution. I will delve into that, thanks. The reagent should have the not_improved tag btw, since I do believe that improvements of the same kind would override each other. But this has a lot of flavor potential, and for easter eggs. :) And all without slowing anything down. Nice.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Urist McBeanie

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2012, 09:57:35 pm »

Have you considered allowing the other races to be Fortress Mode playable? Each with their own special characteristics, such as elves not being able to cut down trees and whatnot? All the ideas in the main post seem great and I would love to see implemented though!
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Uristocrat

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2012, 12:16:12 am »

English not my first language, excuse the lapse ;)

It's not a very common word :)  And I know just how hard it is to try speaking to people in another language...  I still make a lot of mistakes whenever I try.
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You could have berries on the rocks and the dwarves would say it was "berry gneiss."
You should die horribly for this. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Meph

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2012, 12:29:47 am »

Doesnt matter how common or not, splitter is the german word for splinter, it was a lapse, I just decided, for reasons unknown to me, that I write that in german. ^^

Anyway, THANKS AGAIN for all the suggestions in this thread. My todo list has grown and many new ideas have been given. Special thanks at hugo, because you actually do include code/raws to make it easier. :)

I have a week at least here in MExiko City before I head towards the US, so I might do some work, but not as much as I did for the jump from 1.7.1 to 1..8.1... that was easily over 100h of work.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Putnam

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2012, 12:34:14 am »

It's not like it matters too much that you lapse into German occasionally anyway, they're both from the same roots so most English speakers could understand the gist anyway :P

Tierre

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Re: Ideas for modding / Masterwork DF Suggestions
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2012, 03:02:02 am »

Yeah i doubt anybody would understand if i lapse to russian:)

Meph with your mod flavor it seems like you went up to 19th century tech with all those steampanly automatons and turrets. Why not try to make big guns (artillery) - superheavy (for slow movement) "rifles" with great blast power but which will have a really expensive price and ammo cost. I doubt it is possible to make it 2-3 dwarfes operated though it would be cool (but impossible nontheless).
Also idea to think about - healing potions - very expensive drink made with a lot of herbs and rare materials which will transform a dwarf to its healed form. Micromanagement with drinks and burrows would be a pain in the posterior though.
Well that's it for now - i will post in some good ideas if they go to my mind:)
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