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[nenjin]

I always feel like they keep adding crap to keep my stash overstuffed, to tempt me to buy more slots.

This is their primary monetization strategy. Whales buying cosmetic supporter packs for hundreds of dollars every major update can only take you so far. The currency system IS there to facilitate microtransactions from the non-whale crowd, it's true.

But a perspective from someone with thousands of hours in game and maybe a couple hundred dollars in it since beta:

-There is so much content, between different classes to play and builds and what not, that after a few hundred hours I felt they were owed SOMETHING.

-There are only three MUST HAVE purchases to keep you on par with the average POE player:
1. Currency Stash Tab.
2. Map Stash Tab.
3. 4 Premium Stash tabs to augment the starting amount you get.

I think all that will run you about $40? With those three you can pretty much hold everything as long as you're not a hoarder. Most of my extra stash tabs are there to hold junk Uniques that I can't bring myself to vendor. Every once in a while one of them will sell for peanuts from my public stash tab. So that's really my own dysfunction causing me to spend more on PoE than I actually need.

The thing about POE is character and gear options get deeper and more interesting the longer you play, IMO. Many currencies do not appear or becomes relevant until the mid-to-end game, and many of the "content flourishes" that have been added to the standard league over the years really get in to full swing near the end game. There's always SOMETHING to look forward to it in a map, whether that's an Abyss, Tormented Spirit, Breach, Rogue Exiles, Unique Chests, etc and so forth. Can't blame anyone for feeling the game is "missing something" but I'd also argue those people may not have invested the time to really plumb the depths of optimizing their character, their build or their gear.

[frostshotgg]

I will say, as long as you aren't SSF, you can function off the basic 4 tabs, you'll just be crippled economically. Space management is huge, it can be tempting to just sit on every unique you find but 99% of them are best off just sold for some alch shards and then if you ever need it you can trade for it. Trade chat, as miserable as it can be, is not the worst for selling chase uniques you don't keep like belly.

[Rex_Nex]

I will never spend money on a free game, it would ruin it for me.

Yeah, they absolutely do add in a lot of items seemingly just to take up space. I can't really blame them, and I expect you don't either, but going into every F2P game with a "I refuse to spent a cent on this" mindset can be really bad. Some games absolutely will just keep guzzling money in order for you to keep enjoying them (and your mindset is pretty important there), but there's other games like PoE where you put in ten or twenty bucks once and are almost never pestered into buying anything ever again. The only ones who're being suckered out of their wallets are the whales spending $100+ on sets of lowpoly wings and plastic armor.

PoE is also something that doesn't feel like a free game to me, which makes me feel a lot better about putting a few dollars into it.

[Retropunch]

Every so often I come back to this game, but it never manages to grab me. The setting and plot are just horrible, but it's not as if Diablo 2 won any oscars, and I hated parts of that game too.  It just feels like it's missing something, and at the same time, to properly make currency and build your character, you have to collect certain items, keep going back to town and selling stuff, and filling up your stash.  I always feel like they keep adding crap to keep my stash overstuffed, to tempt me to buy more slots. This was obviously not a concern in diablo 2, although there was limited storage, you couldn't spend more money to get more (Unless you wanted to buy another copy of the game I guess).  It felt like you were given the amount you were supposed to have.

I dunno, maybe that "missing something" feeling means they're doing something right, and I should spend money to make it better, but I will never spend money on a free game, it would ruin it for me.

I've played PoE on and off for years (I do about one 'full run' per year) and I've never spent a penny on it and have never seen the need. The only thing that 'alters' game play is buying tabs for the stash, and I honestly don't see how you can fill it up unless you hoard everything special you see or you're wanting to put in enough time to be a 'major' player (and if that's the case then £10-20 really isn't much for the amount of time you're spending). They never pressure you into getting anything, and you don't really alter gameplay by paying.

I have to agree with Rex_Nex that your mindset on it feels a bit off on this one - so many games I'd agree with you on the 'f2p model sucks', but this one is a bit different. Maybe it's just not for you though -  I don't get MOBAs even though I love all the 'parts' to them. I love 4x games but don't like Civ, etc. etc.

[Damiac]

Yeah, it's definitely me, I don't blame GGG for making the game the way it is. The weird part is how difficult it is to express what exactly it is that keeps this game from being one of my favorites, when it checks all the right boxes.  Like I said, it feels like it's empty somehow, which is a bizarre sentiment given just how much there is to it.  The inventory juggling might be a part of it, maybe it's the plot and the setting? I don't know.  I try to get into it again every so often, because it should be a game I really like, but I always lose interest after a while. 

I play MWO as well, according to steam I have 1000 hours in it.  I've got tons and tons of mechs and bays, but again, I would never spend a penny, or suddenly the game would be ruined for me.  If I spend money on a game, it's like it owes me something, expectations are higher.  MWO has no plot, obviously, and it's quite repetitive, but I don't feel the same way about it for some reason.

My issues with the F2P model are my own, and like you say, there's a difference between loot boxes and powerups, and extra stash tabs.

[Retropunch]

Yeah, it's definitely me, I don't blame GGG for making the game the way it is. The weird part is how difficult it is to express what exactly it is that keeps this game from being one of my favorites, when it checks all the right boxes....

I play MWO as well, according to steam I have 1000 hours in it.  I've got tons and tons of mechs and bays, but again, I would never spend a penny, or suddenly the game would be ruined for me....

I think PoE has to be viewed as slightly different to something like Diablo - PoE is all about creating and advancing a 'build'. It's not really about the story (although it's serviceable enough) or anything like that, it's all about creating that build. So it all comes down to how much you like theory crafting and working towards that goal. It's amazing some of the combos that you can make, because you can get stuff to trigger off other stuff and just end up ramping up the DPS to ridiculous, screen clearing levels.

In so far as spending money ruining games, I find that kinda difficult to understand. The expectations are higher if you pay for something, but if you're already put in 1000 hours in it, how is your expectation really going to change? You're not suddenly going to say 'actually, this game is terrible because I bought a cheap extra mechbay' or whatever.

Mostly though, I feel it's a bit unfair on the developers - they're obviously trying to make a living and for the good F2P games they're not trying to 'trick' you or give you pay2win. If you're spending 1000's of hours on something don't you feel that they've deserved some of your hard earned cash? It seems like a weird excuse to just not pay for what you're getting. Any game that pretends to be free but then gates progress with cash should be rightly deprived of money, but if you can play the whole game without forking out a penny, I don't see how it can be 'ruined'.

 Another way to look at it - if you spend £/$10 on it, it's about a quarter the cost of a normal game - is the 1000 hours you put into MWO equal enjoyment to at least quarter of a full priced normal game?

[Rex_Nex]

Delve has been out for about half a day now. I'd say now is the time to jump in, but between Delves themselves being buggy and the somewhat botched introduction of new visuals, PoE is the messiest it has been for several years. Might want to give it at least a few days for the worst of the bugs to be ironed out if you're on the fence.

[Jopax]

Betrayal

Infodump

tl:dr

They're reworking how masters work, rolling Delve, Incursion and even Bestiary into the core game and the new expansion is themed around dismantling a thaumaturgical mafia trough what looks suspiciously Shadow of Mordor-like mechanics with interrogations, assasinations, betrayals, ambushes and whatnot, all working towards getting the right people into the right place in order to murder them and take all their shit.

Also new skills and stuff.

Edit:

I'm sure it's simply a coincidence but calling the league Betrayal and the mob you gotta take down the Immortal Syndicate seems a bit on the nose considering some recent news XD

[cerapa]

I'm sure it's simply a coincidence but calling the league Betrayal and the mob you gotta take down the Immortal Syndicate seems a bit on the nose considering some recent news XD

They were considering naming it Immortal in October while in development, but decided to go for Betrayal instead.

[Retropunch]

New update looks really good, and it's great that they're listening to the player base. The masters were pretty rubbish, and one of the few weak links.

More than anything though, I'm glad that they're making more sort of procedural generated story to fill it out - it'll certainly help with the replays.

[Apodaca]

New Noocube results update looks really good, and it's great that they're listening to the player base. The masters were pretty rubbish, and one of the few weak links.

More than anything though, I'm glad that they're making more sort of procedural generated story to fill it out - it'll certainly help with the replays.

I'm so hyped up for the Betrayal update. Seems to have a decent amount of depth to it so it doesn't look like it's going to be just a big grind and nothing else.

[Retropunch]

I'm so hyped up for the Betrayal update. Seems to have a decent amount of depth to it so it doesn't look like it's going to be just a big grind and nothing else.

Agreed, I can't really get into 'grind for the sake of more numbers' anymore - it can be really cathartic to just smash stuff up and get great loot, but I need *something* to keep me going beyond that. This seems just that - any more additional story they can add is great.

I really hope they keep going down this route of sort of adding more side stories - not just side quests, but sort of full separate quests in the same world. It'd be a really different sort of mechanic - not quite MMORPG style as it'd be a lot more cohesive, and not general RPG type of 'side quests that build you up for the main quest' but sort of...completely separate full quests that all merge together a bit.

[Sirian]

I've started a new character, having some fun discovering the game mechanics (I've played before but didn't go very far).

I can tell you one thing : the jokes about having or not having phones are never ending on the global chat. Seems like PoE is benefiting greatly from the Diablo debacle.

Anyways, I'm not hoping for much viability but I'll still try to make a semi-functional build based on the Duelist-Slayer. We'll see how it goes. Mostly I just want to learn enough to get build ideas for a next character.

So far my biggest discovery was that I could vastly improve my survivability in Delve if I kept jumping in place (mobs don't attack while you're airborne).

[Jopax]

The best defense is murdering everything before it gets a chance to hurt you

That said, the Slayer is one of the tankier classes, mostly because he gets crazy good sustain trough his ascendancy (life leech doesn't stop at full hp, which essentially means you get over-regen of sorts making jumping back from big hits super quick. Which skill are you mainly using though? There's some pretty good ones for 2-handing, even if they all kinda pale in comparison with dual-wield/statsticking when it comes to damage output.

[nenjin]

I've started a new character, having some fun discovering the game mechanics (I've played before but didn't go very far).

I can tell you one thing : the jokes about having or not having phones are never ending on the global chat. Seems like PoE is benefiting greatly from the Diablo debacle.

Anyways, I'm not hoping for much viability but I'll still try to make a semi-functional build based on the Duelist-Slayer. We'll see how it goes. Mostly I just want to learn enough to get build ideas for a next character.

So far my biggest discovery was that I could vastly improve my survivability in Delve if I kept jumping in place (mobs don't attack while you're airborne).

Here's my take:

Most builds work up through the end of the game. They may struggle a little in some boss fights or in the Labyrinth, but by and large almost any build will get you to the end of the game. Real build viability is how deeply can you make it in to maps. Do you struggle to do enough DPS, or are you such a glass cannon that you're getting one-shot. For your first build I'd just do what feels natural. Focus on getting a large HP pool, and tweak things as you go along and get better drops or a unique you can combo with. If you set the bar as "I wanna do max tier maps and kill the Shaper etc...." many builds either can't get there or take a long time to get the gear they need to make their build work. So I wouldn't worry about that too much as you're playing. Just enjoy the ride. End game PoE is its own thing.