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I really like the new system.

127 (35%)

Better than before, but more needs to be done.

93 (25.6%)

It doesn't make a difference to me.

41 (11.3%)

The changes don't really address my issues.

6 (1.7%)

I don't like it at all.

35 (9.6%)

I have mixed feelings on the matter.

61 (16.8%)

Total Members Voted: 362

[Arkenstone]

Still isn't enough to smelt though.  Besides, I don't see anything that would make it more valuable than, say, pyhrite at this point.

[gestahl]

I don't mind the change as far as digging stone, or even building walls. And while being able to make four walls or one chair out of the same hunk of rock might be annoying, the dwarf doing this could also be wearing a leather cloak made from the hide of one cat, while wearing a leather cap that consumed an entire elephant hide to create. Making chairs/tables/slabs/etc will be a bigger resource sink, but past year 2 or so I think most of us will be contently stockpiled with stone, rather then drowning in it as before.

The problem with a flat drop rate is that digging out a 10 by 10 hunk of marble and getting between 20 and 30 stones isn't a big deal but carefully digging out the few safe squares of candy on the edge of a tube and getting nothing is going to want to make me execute the miner way more then having an untrained fool waste a vein of silver ever did.

[Trapezohedron]

@topictitle
Eh, I don't mind.

Then again, I tend to mod in rock-creation and destruction reactions, so yeah.

[Drawde]

The problem with a flat drop rate is that digging out a 10 by 10 hunk of marble and getting between 20 and 30 stones isn't a big deal but carefully digging out the few safe squares of candy on the edge of a tube and getting nothing is going to want to make me execute the miner way more then having an untrained fool waste a vein of silver ever did.

That metal is currently 100% drop, specifically because of this.

It could possibly end up being all clusters instead of all gem clusters that end up 100%.

[Arkenstone]

Last I checked deep metal was a guaranteed 100% drop, and I doubt that changed unless Toady forgot something.  All gems now drop 100% too, which I think is nice.

If anything though, 100% drop rates will be by tag as apposed to by cluster size, because I don't think the game remembers cluster associations after worldgen.

[KharBevNor]

I believe gems always dropped at 100%

I'm having a lot of difficulty understanding the complains in this thread, tbh. The new fort I started in 0.34.08 is extremely resource rich. Especially when combined with the hauling changes, my metal and stone industries are running faster and more productively than ever, and I no longer need to keep about half my fortress employed as haulers on endless garbage dumping duty.

Also, sorry if this has been mentioned, but from what I can see in my game, platinum is a 100% drop.

[GoldenShadow]

Last I checked deep metal was a guaranteed 100% drop, and I doubt that changed unless Toady forgot something.  All gems now drop 100% too, which I think is nice.

If anything though, 100% drop rates will be by tag as apposed to by cluster size, because I don't think the game remembers cluster associations after worldgen.

I verified that adamantine also still produces a single metal thread, not 4

[Starne]

I'm okay with the change, but I think more could be done.

These are Dwarves we're talking about, the main things they have in abundance are  foolishness, greed, enemies, stone, and metal.

Were it up to me, I'd increase the flat drop rate of stone by about 10-20%, and I'd increase the drop rate of ores dramatically, to something like 75-80%. I'd leave the "1 Ore Chunk=4 Bars" rule in effect, though. The idea being to make metalworking very lucrative and making the export of metal products into the staple go-to when it comes to trade.

To go off on a bit of a tangent, I'd also make it possible to make crafts, furniture and stuff out of blocks. I'd also rename wood blocks to wood planks, with one log=3 planks(Products made of planks would be worth more than products made of logs). Making logs into planks manually(IE at a carpenter's workshop) would be time consuming, with some kind of powered Sawmill workshop being much more efficient. I know that a powered sawmill might be a bit out of our time-frame, but I could easily see Dwarves rigging up some kind of mechanical saw-thing powered by a water wheel. The exception to this would be the 'odd' woods such as bamboo and saguaro.

The general idea behind all of this being that the more effort and Dwarf-hours you put into your production chains, the more you get out of your resources. Miner->Mason->Stone Products or Woodcutter->Carpenter-Wood Products would still be viable, but with Miner->Mason->Mason->Stone Products and Woodcutter->Sawmill->Carpenter->Wood Products being more resource efficient. With the metalworking industries being the most productive and lucrative(Miner->Smelter->Smith->Lots of Shiny things).

[NW_Kohaku]

These are Dwarves we're talking about, the main things they have in abundance are  foolishness, greed, enemies, stone, and metal.

Were it up to me, I'd increase the flat drop rate of stone by about 10-20%, and I'd increase the drop rate of ores dramatically, to something like 75-80%. I'd leave the "1 Ore Chunk=4 Bars" rule in effect, though. The idea being to make metalworking very lucrative and making the export of metal products into the staple go-to when it comes to trade.

So you're saying...

"We always have more metal ore than we can do anything with," but also saying, "We should have three times as much metal ore as we already get."

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, here.

[Tarran]

I'm having a lot of difficulty understanding the complains in this thread, tbh. The new fort I started in 0.34.08 is extremely resource rich. Especially when combined with the hauling changes, my metal and stone industries are running faster and more productively than ever, and I no longer need to keep about half my fortress employed as haulers on endless garbage dumping duty.

I'm pretty sure a decent amount of people were complaining about rare minerals being screwed over. Personally, I'm perfectly fine with common minerals and large clusters and veins having this change, as they'll likely not feel much, but rare small clusters and single tile ores have basically become a game of chance. Both because there's a significant chance of getting nothing, and the mode result is 1 metal less.

Yes, there's a chance to get so much more, but the majority of times, you'll get less than you did in previous versions.

The dividing point between the two sides is on that point above. Those who are against, like me, cannot accept this trade-off. Those for it can. It would take a serious effort to convince either side otherwise in my opinion.

Also, sorry if this has been mentioned, but from what I can see in my game, platinum is a 100% drop.

Can anyone confirm this?

[Starne]

These are Dwarves we're talking about, the main things they have in abundance are  foolishness, greed, enemies, stone, and metal.

Were it up to me, I'd increase the flat drop rate of stone by about 10-20%, and I'd increase the drop rate of ores dramatically, to something like 75-80%. I'd leave the "1 Ore Chunk=4 Bars" rule in effect, though. The idea being to make metalworking very lucrative and making the export of metal products into the staple go-to when it comes to trade.

So you're saying...

"We always have more metal ore than we can do anything with," but also saying, "We should have three times as much metal ore as we already get."

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, here.

Export (lots of)iron bolts to the Goblins and Elves, steel stuff to the Humans, precious metals and steel to the mountain homes.  Later on, a steady stream of metal products going out to the sprawl around the fortress, equipment for the armies you're sending out, and tribute to the king. Stuff for the fortress itself to upgrade the trap system and to repair and replace all those damaged, broken, and worn-out things. Knick-knacks for your Dwarves when the economy returns. You also can't forget a steady trickle of gold, silver, and platinum for your hoard(Gotta draw those throngs of Goblins, Kobolds, Dragons, Giants and everything else in somehow).

Several ways to use metals in the game now, and even more later.

[ZzarkLinux]

These are Dwarves we're talking about, the main things they have in abundance are  foolishness, greed, enemies, stone, and metal.

Might I also propose booze and machines

dwarves = gnomes in my opinion
Games like WOW and DnD-Eberron portray dwarves as kinda mechanical, which is a nice contrast to magical elves.

[NW_Kohaku]

These are Dwarves we're talking about, the main things they have in abundance are  foolishness, greed, enemies, stone, and metal.

Were it up to me, I'd increase the flat drop rate of stone by about 10-20%, and I'd increase the drop rate of ores dramatically, to something like 75-80%. I'd leave the "1 Ore Chunk=4 Bars" rule in effect, though. The idea being to make metalworking very lucrative and making the export of metal products into the staple go-to when it comes to trade.

So you're saying...

"We always have more metal ore than we can do anything with," but also saying, "We should have three times as much metal ore as we already get."

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, here.

Export (lots of)iron bolts to the Goblins and Elves, steel stuff to the Humans, precious metals and steel to the mountain homes.  Later on, a steady stream of metal products going out to the sprawl around the fortress, equipment for the armies you're sending out, and tribute to the king. Stuff for the fortress itself to upgrade the trap system and to repair and replace all those damaged, broken, and worn-out things. Knick-knacks for your Dwarves when the economy returns. You also can't forget a steady trickle of gold, silver, and platinum for your hoard(Gotta draw those throngs of Goblins, Kobolds, Dragons, Giants and everything else in somehow).

Several ways to use metals in the game now, and even more later.

The fact that there's an argument for platinum to be removed from the game entirely aside...

That's not really an argument for metal being more common. 

In fact, if you want metal to be terribly useful and valuable, it should be less common, because if it's supposed to be valuable, you shouldn't "always have more metal than you can use", you should "always need more". 

If anything, this is an argument for 5% or 10% ore drop rates.

[Arkenstone]

If you want more metal, change the mineral frequency in worldgen options, or do some creative modding.

[Splint]

I don't much care for the nonskill based drop rates. I seem to be cursed with poor rates for ores, while I have almost no use for gems, which seem to be, for alot of gems, nearly worthless. And now mining is just another speed thing, it's like a miller or fish cleaner now with the barely useful benefit of using a pick as a weapon, which doesn't negate bad thoughts.

Besides, without masses of stone cluttering the hell out of the place, it's just.... I honestly can't think of anything other than it doesn't feel right. Flux is ruined rutinly, ores lost, which when trying to actually equip soldiers with more than fancy shoes helmets and shields is bad. My first one using this system, and my miners ruined more ore than they extracted, and I was left with on average enough metal to equiup maybe two soldiers at a time, if that. If nothing else, a higher rate for ores would be nicer. I can't really find a use for gems unless I stick an ass load onto a few thing to increase the value.

I will admit I like the blocks being more economical now. But as with ores, flux gets ruined now, and I have 3 or 4x as much wasted space because I had to needlessly mine that out with legendary miners just to get what i needed for a few steel spears and swords.

I know my opinion is obviously quite overwhelmingly crushed based on the vote, and the realism is improved, but this is one bit of realism I could do without. Hell it kinda makes minecarts outside of trading and improvised weapons a bit moot since we needed the damn things to move the mountains of stone around more than anything. That's just my take on things. No need to point out the holes in my logic or whatever, as I know some people may do anyway.

tl;dr version
Wtf, are miners relegated to sightly less useless fish cleaners now?