Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

I really like the new system.

127 (35%)

Better than before, but more needs to be done.

93 (25.6%)

It doesn't make a difference to me.

41 (11.3%)

The changes don't really address my issues.

6 (1.7%)

I don't like it at all.

35 (9.6%)

I have mixed feelings on the matter.

61 (16.8%)

Total Members Voted: 362

[Tarran]

I know my opinion is obviously quite overwhelmingly crushed based on the vote,

Don't be so pessimistic. ~20% are mixed or against. And 25% think it is better, but could easily be even better, which could be taken as "It's a step in the right direction, but there's some serious problems".

If nothing else, at least you've got me.

[Splint]

I'm pessemistic by nature. Years of dissappointment assured that. But enough about me.

Part of what i find annoying is it feels like I just have a construction equivalent of a fish cleaner now, and that's not right! D:

[GoldenShadow]

I am enjoying that clearing a small 11x11 room of stone can be done with one wave of haulers to a garbage dump in the hallway.

[Dorfimedes]

I will admit I like the blocks being more economical now. But as with ores, flux gets ruined now, and I have 3 or 4x as much wasted space because I had to needlessly mine that out with legendary miners just to get what i needed for a few steel spears and swords.

Nah, I agree, we could use some tweaks in regards to flux since I think it's something Toady overlooked when the new version was put out. I think it should work sort of like blocks, you should be able to take a flux boulder to a workshop (mason's?) and make four flux bars out of it. Then you would get the proper numbers of flux from the stone and keeping stockpiles of the stuff wouldn't be so cumbersome, since bars stack and can be put in bins.

Wtf, are miners relegated to sightly less useless fish cleaners now?

Well, despite the dwarvish bond with stone, I always thought of miners as being unskilled laborers anyhow since the task is pretty simple. All they're doing is smashing rock into rough shapes for the engravers to work with, who are probably tasked with all the fine details that make a great hall look so grand.

[Broseph Stalin]

I REALLY like the new system. First of all I never liked the fact that skilled miners were fixtures of the fortress, mining is more about being strong and putting the work in then being skilled. It feels more realistic to have a team of miners working instead of just two guys building a subterranean fortress all by their lonesome. This is actually the first time I've actually had a real stone stockpile, I usually use a quantum stone stockpile and spend half of the game turning thousands of boulders into crafts just to be rid of them.  Plus blocks were basically useless before the change. I made some personal use modifications to make it possible to create furniture from blocks instead of raw stone. It feels much more organic to quarry huge boulders, cut them into blocks, and then use them instead of just dragging a boulder to a construction site and somehow turning it into a workshop.

[Sadrice]

I don't understand the whining, frankly.  The rate at which you aquire ordinary metal has not changed (if you think that the RNG is cheating you, well, I don't really believe you), the rate at which you aquire construction material is also not changed, the rate at which you find rare metals is quadrupeled, and you get way more fuel for your digging effort.  The only thing that is now limited is crafts and furniture made out of stone (which has been reduced from an endless suply to a merely almost endless supply), and flux.  Generally, if you have flux you have a lot of it, so this isn't really an issue.

As for the making minecarts useless argument, sure there's less stone now, but have you tried clearing it all out without minecarts?  Dwarves don't use wheelbarrows to dump items.  Clearing the stone by hand takes much longer now than it did before.

[loose nut]

Almost two years into my first 34.09 fort and there aren't very many functional changes resulting from mineral drop rates. I'm hardly running out of stone. I may not have thousands of stone lying around, but it's definitely in the hundreds. And, actually, it was quicker to get metal up and running, because smelting one chunk of hematite gets you a bunch of iron bars. Haven't gotten to flux or coal deposits in this fort so I can't speak to that.

[Tarran]

The rate at which you aquire ordinary metal has not changed

Actually, yes it has. It changed from a constant stream to a fluctuating bumpy ride, because you only have a 25% chance to get 4 blocks, meaning it won't be a linear line like it used to be.

Though I'll be fair. Overall, if you drew a line straight through the average, yes it would be the same.

the rate at which you aquire construction material is also not changed,

I don't think anyone did complain much about this.

the rate at which you find rare metals is quadrupeled,

Checking the other thread, hmm, indeed it seems my complains are now null and void.

Anyway, you have to remember most of the complaints were before the new release, and Toady didn't publicly state that small clusters have 100% drops. And I'll admit, I haven't played much DF so I didn't really check for myself.

Generally, if you have flux you have a lot of it, so this isn't really an issue.

Unless you embark on a site with a few levels of Flux in the corner of the map with half of the layers covered with ore.

[Psieye]

Wtf, are miners relegated to sightly less useless fish cleaners now?

Well, despite the dwarvish bond with stone, I always thought of miners as being unskilled laborers anyhow since the task is pretty simple. All they're doing is smashing rock into rough shapes for the engravers to work with, who are probably tasked with all the fine details that make a great hall look so grand.

Oh come on, I will not accept "I forgot miners have picks, one of the deadliest weapons available" (I will accept "I did not know that"). Treating miners like the other drone job holders will result in extremely !!FUN!! tantrum spirals. If anything, from the perspective of training up a pick-equipped militia, this change makes it amazingly easy to train up legendary weapon users.

[Splint]

Yeah, but picks don't count as a weapon skill for intents of using them as soldiers. They get bad thoughts every time they're called up.

[KharBevNor]

Also, sorry if this has been mentioned, but from what I can see in my game, platinum is a 100% drop.

Can anyone confirm this?

This could be luck, but here are the last two platinum clusters I've mined out in my current fort as of this point:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There's a nugget or two missing from each one, but they weren't that recent and I've been refining platinum fairly heavily. I'll look for some other clusters and see if I'm just being weirdly lucky with the drops; I'm sure I remember them all dropping when they were mined, because I remember thinking "oh good, at least platinum still drops well". Someone needs to crack open Reveal and do some !!Science!!.

[krenshala]

Yeah, but picks don't count as a weapon skill for intents of using them as soldiers. They get bad thoughts every time they're called up.

Only while they don't have at least Novice in at least one martial skill.  As soon as they get to Novice Dodging, or  Novice Fighter, or whatever, they stop getting the bad thought when being called to active service.  Same for recruits being put off duty.  If they don't have at least one civilian skill at Novice or greater, they get the unhappy thought of being relieved from duty.

[Splint]

I'm aware of peasents lacking civvie skills getting upset about that, but in my expierences, with no dedicated weapon skill or wrestling (as in being actually classed as a wrestler) they still compain.

But that isn't what the thread's about. Still don't like the drop rates, especially when I get consistently screwed by the random number whore and end up with basically a meaningly chunk of irrgular rooms. Yes it has happened. And that's all. I'm entitled to my opinion.

[Arkenstone]

Also, sorry if this has been mentioned, but from what I can see in my game, platinum is a 100% drop.

Can anyone confirm this?

This could be luck, but here are the last two platinum clusters I've mined out in my current fort as of this point:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There's a nugget or two missing from each one, but they weren't that recent and I've been refining platinum fairly heavily. I'll look for some other clusters and see if I'm just being weirdly lucky with the drops; I'm sure I remember them all dropping when they were mined, because I remember thinking "oh good, at least platinum still drops well". Someone needs to crack open Reveal and do some !!Science!!.

Easy enough.  Let's say you got 8 out of 10 platinum. So P^ = .8

H0: p=.25  Ha: p>.25

*checks STAT 350 notes*
*crunches numbers*
*reads t-distribution table*
*reaches conclusion*

There actually is significant evidence that it might not be a coincidence.  More research must be done.

EDIT:
The exact numbers would be very helpful.  It would make a huge difference if it was 7/10, for instance.

[Mistercheif]

Also, sorry if this has been mentioned, but from what I can see in my game, platinum is a 100% drop.

Can anyone confirm this?

This could be luck, but here are the last two platinum clusters I've mined out in my current fort as of this point:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There's a nugget or two missing from each one, but they weren't that recent and I've been refining platinum fairly heavily. I'll look for some other clusters and see if I'm just being weirdly lucky with the drops; I'm sure I remember them all dropping when they were mined, because I remember thinking "oh good, at least platinum still drops well". Someone needs to crack open Reveal and do some !!Science!!.

Easy enough.  Let's say you got 8 out of 10 platinum. So P^ = .8

H0: p=.25  Ha: p>.25

*checks STAT 350 notes*
*crunches numbers*
*reads t-distribution table*
*reaches conclusion*

There actually is significant evidence that it might not be a coincidence.  More research must be done.

EDIT:
The exact numbers would be very helpful.  It would make a huge difference if it was 7/10, for instance.

I'm glad I was not the only one tempted to do this.  Though wouldn't it be a z-test, because we're dealing with proportions? (Just took my AP Stats test last week!  )

And anyway, I have mixed feelings on the change.  I like the increased ease of making blocks, as it requires only 1/4 the hauling to the workshop to produce 4 blocks.  On the other hand, you do have a chance of being screwed by the RNG on ores with very little present on the map, because you won't be mining anywhere near the amounts necessary for the law of large numbers to apply.