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[judegraves7]

Yes, I agree, but a dabbling musician, with low musicality could literally make other dwarves want to kill him with a bad song, was what I was getting at (that at which I was getting).

Yeah, I got that, though I don't think it should be a crime to kill bad musicians. =) Should songs themselves be treated like miasma, spreading across an area, the size of which could be determined by skill level? For example:

A comparison of the range at which various dwarves music may be heard, based on skill level. @ = dwarf, M = sound of music

Dabbling Musician: songs sporadically heard in one tile of vertical or horizontal direction from musician
            M
            @M
Novice Musician: songs constantly heard in all tiles one vertical/horizontal direction from musician, sporadically heard one tile away diagonally
           MM
         M@M
         MM
Adequate Musician: songs heard constantly in all tiles within one tile of musician (V/H/D), sporadically heard two tiles away vertically or horizontally
           M
         MMM
         M@MM
         MMM

... And so on. A Legendary musician's range of effect could fill a huge room, or possibly (without doors) a whole level of the fortress. Treating it as a miasma/mist sort of thing seems like the easiest way to fit it into the game mechanics. Yes, no, meow?

[bitesh]

Now with that, I can't agree. Sound just doesn't work that way. The quality of the musician should only affect the quality of the thoughts. I don't really know how sound is implemented (I know you can hear capybaras bark in adventure mode, and if you put a room right next to a workshop, even with a 1tile wide wall, it disturbs sleep somewhat, but that's not very elaborate). It's the easiest way, but it's too easy, imo.
I don't really have a better suggestion, though. Modders (or Toady himself) should have more to say about this.

[ObeseHelmet]

And next is ... randomly generated music. Player hearable.
In a particularly DF way though.

Some ideas on this:

• Future music of a civ might be made somewhat similar to the early songs of a civ. So, a way to develop culture. A little bit.
• Songs can spread throughout the world by way of traders, diplomats, etc. (maybe even invading armies).
• Dwarves with lower musicality skill might make mistakes on songs, i.e. randomly generated errors in the playing. Legendary = mistake-free.
• Adventure mode gets musicality too. Introducing ... dwarven busking.

So do you think these ideas rock? Suck? Deserve their own thread (possibly for making fun of the idea)? Deserve to be necro'd (no not literally)? Feedback would be appreciated.

[UHaulDwarf]

Rather then randomly generated music, how about a way that you can add your own music to the raws?
And when you have dwarfs play it, you hear it instead of the standard fortress music.

[judegraves7]

Rather then randomly generated music, how about a way that you can add your own music to the raws?
And when you have dwarfs play it, you hear it instead of the standard fortress music.

In the Late Summer of 145, Urist McMelody played a masterwork rendition of "Misty Mountain Hop."

Now with that, I can't agree. Sound just doesn't work that way. The quality of the musician should only affect the quality of the thoughts. I don't really know how sound is implemented (I know you can hear capybaras bark in adventure mode, and if you put a room right next to a workshop, even with a 1tile wide wall, it disturbs sleep somewhat, but that's not very elaborate). It's the easiest way, but it's too easy, imo.
I don't really have a better suggestion, though. Modders (or Toady himself) should have more to say about this.

Do you know anyone tech-savvy enough to explain how sound and noise currently works in the game? It fascinates me.

[bitesh]

• Future music of a civ might be made somewhat similar to the early songs of a civ. So, a way to develop culture. A little bit.
• Songs can spread throughout the world by way of traders, diplomats, etc. (maybe even invading armies).
• Dwarves with lower musicality skill might make mistakes on songs, i.e. randomly generated errors in the playing. Legendary = mistake-free.
• Adventure mode gets musicality too. Introducing ... dwarven busking.

1)I guess, but not sure how it could be implemented.
2)Can, and should.
3)That's probably not feasable.
4)By all means, yes.

Do you know anyone tech-savvy enough to explain how sound and noise currently works in the game? It fascinates me.

Sadly, no.

[Osmosis Jones]

Nice idea, but one thing; I think musicality should be more of a sensitivity to music than whether or not the dwarf likes it.

So, a high musicality (hm) dwarf would be ecstatic after hearing a masterwork performance, while a low musicality (lm) would get only a small happy thought, not enough to bump them up very far. By contrast however, a hm dwarf, upon hearing Urist McDabbler's first lessons, should be enraged, while a lm dwarf grumps a little, but gets on with his life.

I also don't see any problem with it providing a *slight* boost or penalty to learning an instrument; after all, it's harder to master something you aren't passionate about, music is actually a prime example of this irl.

[judegraves7]

Nice idea, but one thing; I think musicality should be more of a sensitivity to music than whether or not the dwarf likes it.

So, a high musicality (hm) dwarf would be ecstatic after hearing a masterwork performance, while a low musicality (lm) would get only a small happy thought, not enough to bump them up very far. By contrast however, a hm dwarf, upon hearing Urist McDabbler's first lessons, should be enraged, while a lm dwarf grumps a little, but gets on with his life.

I also don't see any problem with it providing a *slight* boost or penalty to learning an instrument; after all, it's harder to master something you aren't passionate about, music is actually a prime example of this irl.

With regards to learning an instrument, I think the skills should be gained by individual instrument, as with military and weapons (Drummer, Piper, Harpist, etc). Heck, going back to the military musicians idea, you could designate a specific squad to carry instruments.

[Osmosis Jones]

Yeah, that's fine; we already have different weapons, so different instruments is not that much of a hassle. Maybe a generic music skill (a la the fighter skill) and then a seperate one for each instrument?

My comments about musicality vs skill was more in response to

4. Dwarves already have an innate sense of musicality, which could either
     a) Make it easier for them to learn to play instruments, which is not preferable, as such should be a skill.

[UHaulDwarf]

4. Dwarves already have an innate sense of musicality, which could either
     a) Make it easier for them to learn to play instruments, which is not preferable, as such should be a skill.

Some people have perfect pitch, which might help them play music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

[bitesh]

4. Dwarves already have an innate sense of musicality, which could either
     a) Make it easier for them to learn to play instruments, which is not preferable, as such should be a skill.

Some people have perfect pitch, which might help them play music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

They usually have other issues though. But, yeah.

[judegraves7]

4. Dwarves already have an innate sense of musicality, which could either
     a) Make it easier for them to learn to play instruments, which is not preferable, as such should be a skill.

Some people have perfect pitch, which might help them play music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

They usually have other issues though. But, yeah.

The real question, which has been unanswered by the Powers That Be (Toady): what is musicality? Is it like what Jones said, affecting how dwarves respond to music? Or like bitesh's idea of musicality relating to how easy it is for dwarves to learn/play music? We need a solid definition/purpose.

[Osmosis Jones]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicality ?

[bitesh]

Well, actually my idea is that it's both.

[judegraves7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicality ?

-_- Not the point, Detective Jones. I was referring to musicality's definition as a game mechanic. But you already knew that, and now you have aroused my wrath with your trolling! Dwarves of Amudkel, put all squads on active military alert! Sound the masterwork brass trumpets: we go to war with the oppressor Jones! ARMOK WILL DRINK BLOOD TONIGHT!!!