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Author Topic: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]  (Read 4502 times)

Sappho

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Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« on: May 01, 2012, 08:19:55 am »

The following is an extract from the journal of Urist Craftedhead, dwarven psychologist:

13 Felsite

I have just returned home from my regular visit to the lunatic asylum in Hammerspires and I must confess my thoughts are in a strangely confused state. I met a patient there for the first time, a violent schizophrenic whom I shall simply refer to as "Oddom." When I entered the room where he was kept, I was initially shocked by the conditions - the poor dwarf was held down to a bed with chains, his beard filthy and tangled, and the room was filled with the stink of mild miasma. His attending was quick to explain that this dwarf was given to violent outbursts that made it necessary to restrain him in this manner, that he would not allow anyone to attempt to sponge-clean his beard lest he bite them, and that if not allowed to keep an array of "pets" (deceased vermin dragged into the room by the resident cat) he would howl so terribly and unceasingly that eventually the doctors were forced to give in.

However, Oddom made no move of aggression towards me. His eyes appeared to be pleading, and, keeping a hammerdwarf nurse handy in case he should turn unexpectedly violent, I approached him to hear the words he was trying to whisper to me.

"It's the worlds," he said. "They are falling apart, crashing into each other, splitting at the seams! They are leaking! The worlds are leaking!" I remember his words with crystal clarity, for he hissed them out with such urgency. I pressed him gently to continue, to explain which worlds he meant, for surely I knew of only one. At this, he chuckled with what appeared to be amusement laced with regret. "Of course you can only see the one. You are one of the lucky ones." He then went on to describe with surprising lucidity that he was a special sort of being, an inter-dimensional creature who could see all the different threads of reality wound together, and that this was the true source of his apparent insanity, for it was sometimes impossible for him to sort out which thread he was acting in. According to Oddom, at every moment in time where a decision can be made, all possible decisions are in fact made, and the universe splits into several, so that every possible outcome of events actually exists somewhere within the reality of space and time, and while any ordinary creature exists only within their own version of reality, he existed across all of them. Following this great revelation he appeared to be taken with exhaustion and fell into a deep sleep.

Clearly, schizophrenic patients often offer very compelling alternative views of reality driven by the dysfunction in their minds, but this Oddom's story struck me in a peculiar way. Even now, many hours later and safe in my own chambers, I can't help but ask myself - what if it were true? What if there really could be other realities, perhaps one where I had become a fisherdwarf, or died in an accident as a child - or even one where my beloved Rakust had never been killed in that elephant attack?


So the proposal is a succession fort where more than one overseer takes over at the end of each turn. In the first turn there is only one "universe," but in the second there are 2, in the third there are 4 or more, etc., the exact number of splits depending on the number of interested players. Not every universe would need to split every turn. It would have to be carefully organized of course, with some sort of diagram or tree with links to each universe, which clearly shows which universe is which and how they all relate to each other. I think the actual updates would be best done externally, using Google Docs or something similar, to prevent confusion in the thread.

I always wonder how differently things could turn out if different decisions had been made earlier in the game, and this will give us a chance to find out. Though it could get complicated, I think the intelligent people on these forums could manage to keep track of it all, and the results would be worth the effort. It would also be interesting to compare forts after three different overseers have had their turns at them, see which fortresses last the longest and which crumble quickly - and it might be nice to be able to be more aggressive and daring, trying dangerous ideas early on, knowing that if that particular universe falls there are others for the next player to try and the game is not ruined. Furthermore, more than one player could be going at a time, reducing the wait time for those who want to take part.

Is anyone interested? This would be my first succession game, so I'd be perfectly fine with it if someone else wanted to start the game off or manage the details (though I'd be fine with being the manager if no one else wants the job).

slothen

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 08:52:50 am »

Cool idea.  I would suggest adding some kind of decision when splitting forts, so that when a save goes to two different players, they come to agreement about at least one thing they will do differently.  It doesn't have to be a major or serious thing, just something the two players agree on, with input from other thread-watchers, perhaps relating to the next stage of fortress development or how to deal with a present challenge.
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ignatzami

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 02:20:17 pm »

Cool idea.  I would suggest adding some kind of decision when splitting forts, so that when a save goes to two different players, they come to agreement about at least one thing they will do differently.  It doesn't have to be a major or serious thing, just something the two players agree on, with input from other thread-watchers, perhaps relating to the next stage of fortress development or how to deal with a present challenge.

Given that everyone has a different play style, and the game has a large degree of random chance I don't see this being much of a problem.

In other news, sign me up!
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Dalex

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 03:41:59 pm »

Might as well give this a go, sign me up for a turn.
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billybobfred

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 03:57:58 pm »

So, it's Flickeredbrightness, but no pruning at the end of a year?

... Well, this could get complicated dwarfy. Sign me up.
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Sappho

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 10:08:46 am »

Cool, I'm happy to see interest. I agree with ignatzami that playstyles are different enough that there's no need to agree on something in particular for players to do differently. I can't imagine that any two "universes" will end up the same - and if they did, it would be all the more remarkable!

I hadn't heard of Flickeredbrightness before, but I'll have to give it a readthrough. Anyway, the idea behind this one would be that all of the universes exist in parallel to each other. One which doesn't seem interesting could be abandoned - maybe each player can choose which save they want to take, and if no one wants a particular one it can just be left as-is on the diagram.

I have an additional rule suggestion - that players do not post about their turn until it is already complete. This would be to prevent partially-completed turn stories from influencing the other players. What do you all think of that?

So what about the actual scenario? I would prefer something that isn't too difficult. The catch of this one isn't that it's surrounded by necromancers or that it rains acid, just that every player is truly free to do whatever they want and the results can be very different. So I would say it should be in an area which can be played without too much difficulty for those who want to focus on megaprojects or somesuch without fear of immediate destruction - but also something that offers some degree of danger for those who prefer to focus on military? Any suggestions for a general theme or purpose of the fortress? Or should we leave it completely open with a general "increase the glory of the civilization" goal to start with?

ignatzami

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 02:01:15 pm »

I have an additional rule suggestion - that players do not post about their turn until it is already complete. This would be to prevent partially-completed turn stories from influencing the other players. What do you all think of that?

So what about the actual scenario? I would prefer something that isn't too difficult. The catch of this one isn't that it's surrounded by necromancers or that it rains acid, just that every player is truly free to do whatever they want and the results can be very different. So I would say it should be in an area which can be played without too much difficulty for those who want to focus on megaprojects or somesuch without fear of immediate destruction - but also something that offers some degree of danger for those who prefer to focus on military? Any suggestions for a general theme or purpose of the fortress? Or should we leave it completely open with a general "increase the glory of the civilization" goal to start with?

I like the idea of posting the turn in it's entirety. Though you would have to be fairly strict on time limits, to keep people from forgetting and a branch going dead.

I like savage biomes, with mixed features. Corner of a desert, some woodland, and maybe a bit of something exotic?
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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 05:30:08 pm »

I like savage biomes, with mixed features. Corner of a desert, some woodland, and maybe a bit of something exotic?

I think that that embark point would work, the only thing I would add is that you should include a volcano if possible.

It would have to be carefully organized of course, with some sort of diagram or tree with links to each universe, which clearly shows which universe is which and how they all relate to each other. I think the actual updates would be best done externally, using Google Docs or something similar, to prevent confusion in the thread.

I was also wondering how this diagram tree would work. If you don't know I would suggest making a google site, that way you could add subpages, and subpages of subpages, to make the splits a bit more obvious, and you would also be able to navigate using the site map they have built in. You could then either allow overseers to edit said website or they could PM you the story and you could paste it in.

or do it however you want :P

lastly, if this thing does get going, I would like a turn.
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Salmeuk

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 05:43:05 pm »

I would enjoy a turn.

I second a mixed biome embark, but if you do find a volcano make sure it isn't just sheer cliffs - surface volcanoes tend to have extreme *******989******* cliffs that I don't find aesthetically pleasing. Of course, if others enjoy that it would be my opinion against many.

I agree that entire turns should be posted, and also that all the turns be cataloged in the OP to make reading easier, if this thing picks up.
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Sappho

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 12:23:50 am »

OK, I'm about to go to the airport to pick up my grandmother. She'll be delivering my amazing new computer from America (top of the line and HALF the price there it would be here!) but I also have to entertain her for the next week, which won't leave much time for DF. So if you guys don't mind brainstorming/planning for a few more days, I hope I'll be able to find some time for myself, maybe on the weekend, and get things started. So keep throwing out ideas and be patient for just a bit longer, I think it'll be worth it.

Sappho

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 08:56:39 am »

OK, so I should have some time over the next couple of days to get things started. I agree with a mixed biome. My computer should be able to handle a reasonably large embark size now, but I'm sure some people would prefer it stays small. Is everyone okay with 4x4? Or should we stick with 3x3? I'm happy to stick with a vote on this issue.

Now, regarding the actual turns being posted... I used to use Google Docs all the time for my storytelling (see the links in my sig). Easy to link to and use, as long as no one has a problem with Google. Then we could gather the links in the first post in a tree.

I'm thinking the tree can look something like this (we can use graphics instead of just text if someone is willing to create some):

Code: [Select]
                  [Universe 0]
                       |
          --------------------------
         [1]                      [2]
          |                        |
  -----------------            ---------
[11] [12]        [13]        [21]     [22]
       |           |           |        |
     ------      -----      -------     -
  [121] [122] [131] [132] [211] [212] [221]

And so on. The numbers tell you at a glance the origins of the universe, and using the tree (with links to each turn of course) you can read through each thread easily.

Any thoughts on this system? Obviously it will require some pretty dedicated upkeep, but I think I can manage it if no one else wants the job.

Salmeuk

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 10:04:29 pm »

Looks good! I think you should be the one to upkeep, so you can link to the posts from your first post. While Google docs would be good, I think something is lost when posting outside the bay12 forums. Discourages new readers I feel. It's important to have a hook in that first post so when people browsee the community stories they might be drawn in. I think. Er, I feel . . .

Anyways, we needs lotsa peeopls in order to get long chains going. Maybe edit the title of the topic to Quantum Fortress **PLAYERS NEEDED** or something along those lines.

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Sappho

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 01:21:17 am »

OK I think I'll start choosing a site and starting the first turn today and tomorrow. I see enough interest that I think we'll get plenty of players once it gets going. One more question before I start it up though - I generally play with a few small raw modifications. The changes I've made are pretty common ones I think:

-Dwarves have towns (for adv mode)
-Humans can make pig iron and steel (also mostly for adv mode)
-No aquifers (I can't stand aquifers!)

I suppose there's no need to keep the ones for adv mode, though if others are with me on the no-aquifer thing I'm happy to keep them out. I think it's enough to have them out during world gen, then even if I pass the save on to someone who doesn't have aquifers, our site won't have them anyway right? So no need for others to modify their raws from vanilla?

I agree that it's nice to have the turns posted right on the forum. Maybe each turn can be posted here, but also copied to a Google doc linked to from the first post to make reading easier for people who join later? Otherwise I can see it getting super confusing.

Also, how do people feel about starting a new thread for the actual playthrough? Just so newcomers don't have to read through all this planning stuff.

Salmeuk

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 01:43:34 pm »

I agree you should start a new thread! And I don't think the aquifers being turned off is a big problem, but maybe someone else who knows more can chime in.
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slothen

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Re: Quantum Fortress [Succession Proposal]
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 02:10:50 pm »

-No aquifers (I can't stand aquifers!)

 >:(

Choose a site with no aquifer, or after choosing a site and embark, pass the game off to someone who doesn't mind aquifers to start the first year.  Then again, its no different than embarking on a non-aquifer site, so i suppose it doesn't matter.
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