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[WCG]

OK, how do I use fortifications with marksdwarves now?

Apparently, they now have to be right next to the fortification in order to shoot through it. But they won't stand where I station them, and they're not smart enough to take even one step forward. (They apparently don't notice goblins on the other side of the fortification, though civilians for miles around are running away in panic.)

If I tell them to kill a prisoner on the other side of the fortification, they just stand there. If I look at them, they indicate "no reachable valid target." And that's even the case when they're lucky enough to be carrying crossbow bolts! (Half of them usually have empty quivers and won't bother to pick up a bolt even when they're standing on the stockpile.)

Honestly, the military seems hopelessly screwed up. I wouldn't mind it being so ridiculously complicated if it actually worked. Well, I wouldn't mind so much, anyway. But I wish Toady would stop adding stuff to the game and fix some of this stuff we really need.

Frankly, the military worked a lot better two years ago than it does now, don't you think? At least fortifications worked OK back then. And at least marksdwarves would get a little bit better after shooting at targets for a couple of years.

I was hoping they might improve slightly if they shot at goblin prisoners, but I can't get them to stand close enough to the fortification. Meanwhile, as I say, my whole fortress is pretty much at a standstill as civilians panic (even though there's no way the goblins can escape).

[Sphalerite]

Don't let them stand anywhere but right behind the fortifications.  If you have a line of fortifications, use channels or walls to make sure the only valid spot to stand is right behind them.

[Sus]

Don't let them stand anywhere but right behind the fortifications.  If you have a line of fortifications, use channels or walls to make sure the only valid spot to stand is right behind them.

*sound of Face meeting Palm*
But of course.

Been throwing Armok-knows-how-many curses at my idiot marksdorfs for this exact reason, and forcing them to act reasonably never occurred to me. Duh.

[WCG]

Don't let them stand anywhere but right behind the fortifications.  If you have a line of fortifications, use channels or walls to make sure the only valid spot to stand is right behind them.

I find that if I station dwarves anywhere near walls, some of them will walk clear around to stand on the other side, completely out of position.

And unfortunately, I need my civilian dwarves to use these corridors, too. A one space wide path is terrible for traffic, and even my military dwarves will take the long way around if there's someone in the way.

Yeah, I guess I should have designed this differently, but I didn't expect to have such a problem with something so simple. After all, it used to work a lot better than this.

[Daenyth]

Once they're elite they can shoot through them from a distance. They do get trained pretty well by live fire, so I'm not sure what your problem is.

Try making an arena where you can pit armored goblins into, surrounded by fortifications and a 1-tile wide path to station them at.

Make sure that if you have a specific "combat" bolt set in the military screen, that you have enough. Maybe you ran out of that specific type. Do you have enough set? The number of combat bolts is the number for the whole squad.

The UI is pretty obtuse, but compared to 40d it's was more functional. There's just lots of little things that you can do wrong to make it not work. When you do get it working, it's very effective though.

[slothen]

I make 2x or 3x wide passable tiles on the walls.  to get them to go there I use the defend burrow command, which is fairly reliable.  It doesn't take too much to get them to elite level, at which point they can stand anywhere.

[Tolisk]

Want live training? aka an empty moat with a floodgate that is the only way out, and make the walls fortifications.

Insta-Marks training when you retract the bridge on those there goblins.

[WCG]

I've already set up live training for my marksdwarves, but not a moat. Still, a bridge is the only way out, and I raise it before opening the cages, using a lever. (I don't pit enemies, for fear they'll escape.)

I wouldn't do it that way again, or not in the same location, at least. But still, my big problem is simply that my marksdwarves aren't smart enough to stand next to the fortifications, even when I order them to stand there. Everyone else is panicking, but they're too dumb to even stand where I told them to stand!

I guess I thought that burrows only worked for civilian dwarves, so I haven't tried that. But "it doesn't take too much to get them to elite level"? After two years, my dwarves are still all novices - which is exactly where they all started.

Re. combat bolts, yes, I've got that set in the military screen, and there are bolts right beside them in the stockpile. But that's another awkward part of the whole military interface. Really, that's a mess, don't you think? And even when you finally figure it out, it seems to be ridiculously time-consuming to actually use.

Well, not for routine stuff, I guess. But when I actually need the military for anything, then I find out just how terrible it works.

OK, I don't want to sound too grumpy here.     I love the game. But I sure wish Toady would fix some of the problems with the existing game - including the horrible interface - before adding more to it!

[greycat]

I find that if I station dwarves anywhere near walls, some of them will walk clear around to stand on the other side, completely out of position.

That's how Station works.  Each dwarf picks a random pathable spot within a radius of 3 from the point you designate, on the same Z level.  A dwarf will do his utmost to stand on that spot, unless distracted by a hostile target along the way.  When the distraction is removed, the dwarf will return to his spot.

What I do is make a wall on the surface around my entrance.  I build upward stairs in the corners (or possibly a few more if the wall is large), and then downward stairs right above them, giving access to the upper level from inside the wall (but not from outside).  Then I build floors connecting all the stairs on the upper level.  Finally I build fortifications on top of the walls.  This gives me a one-tile-wide walkable perimeter right inside the fortifications.  Civilians have no business going up there at all (unless they're retrieving wounded or something), so they won't be in the way.

If I issue a Station order to any spot on the walkable perimeter, the only places they can stand are on that perimeter, so no matter what spot they choose, they'll always be somewhere on the perimeter, next to a fortification, ready to fire.

[Werdna]

I always do what Sphalerite suggested.  I typically elevate the platform, with either open space or solid walls 5+ thick, so there is no possible way a dwarf can misinterpret a station, and it has to stand next to the fortification.

But, if you don't have that, one trick is to use a Patrol order.  Set two waypoints, one at each end of your line of fortifications or just past them, and order a Patrol instead of a Station.  Now what will happen is the Patrol uses pathing to get a "quickest way between two points", and it will drag the dwarves mostly along the fortification, where they will stop and fire if they have an enemy in sight.  Add a third waypoint to an ammo storeroom out of sight of enemies (because they will not reload if enemies are in sight, but they will continue a patrol), and your dwarves will now even reload upon emptying their quivers (which is the next problem you will run into).

[Bilanthri]

Not sure what would cause your marksdwarves to not shoot at viable targets outside of the fortifications. I've had plenty of success stationing archers on top of parapets that are 5x5 internal. Once gobbos show up, the marksdwarves all crowd to the outer edge, up against the fortifications, and begin to shoot.

[greycat]

But, if you don't have that, one trick is to use a Patrol order.  Set two waypoints, one at each end of your line of fortifications or just past them, and order a Patrol instead of a Station.

Patrols can be scheduled, but they can't be issued as orders from the squads interface.

Now what will happen is the Patrol uses pathing to get a "quickest way between two points", and it will drag the dwarves mostly along the fortification, where they will stop and fire if they have an enemy in sight.  Add a third waypoint to an ammo storeroom out of sight of enemies (because they will not reload if enemies are in sight, but they will continue a patrol), and your dwarves will now even reload upon emptying their quivers (which is the next problem you will run into).

Yup, I've started doing a "2 squads of marksdwarves, one patrolling and one training, and they switch each month" strategy.  It works well for me.  I believe I mentioned this already in ... one of these threads.

You know what we need?  More "how 2 military" threads.  There are only 2 or 3 of them on the first page!  That's just not enough!

[Werdna]

Patrols can be scheduled, but they can't be issued as orders from the squads interface.

Thanks for correction.  No matter how many times I do it, mentally I always try to start a Patrol via squad screen before remembering its a scheduling thing.  I think it may have been an engrained habit picked up from 40d.

You know what we need?  More "how 2 military" threads.  There are only 2 or 3 of them on the first page!  That's just not enough!

I don't mind them.  The way I see it, it's like characters in H.P. Lovecraft stories.  Either a player starts playing DF and encounters the military screen and is soon reduced to a gibbering, mind-shattered state with a need to flee and wash their brain cells in simple, orderly games of Angry Birds; or they saw it, managed to hold onto their sanity, and coolly looked to the library or others to research, understand, and master this horror they witnessed.

Of course they'll also go insane eventually, but they're one of us, and we gotta protect our own.

[tolkafox]

See my post on the other thread for how to train marksdwarves with archery targets. Legendary marksdwarves should use fortifications, not dwarves who can barely load a bolt.

For shield training, stick em in melle squads of two in a 2x3 room with shields and hammers. Then switch them back when they're done.

[NTJedi]

Why not just use restricted traffic zones on where you don't want them standing.   This works good for me.   No need to worry about them having to step forward because you've listed the high traffic zone against the fortifications and the restricted traffic zones at other locations.