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[simonthedwarf]

Here's the cage trap drop plan from above, casualties testing it so far: 1 beekeeper. But he died needlessily when I deconstructed the support from below.

    D1   D2
o----------o
oCCCICCCCo

I will channel right in front of the dragons and hope to not get killed, since I only have 10 dwarfs right now I might have to danger room some shield miners to do this. My hope is that when the "I" support is removed by level the dragons will drop down 1 z level and fall into the traps without dying. Getting the floor on top of your head is ofc deadly, but a 1 z level drop can't be that bad.

I'm keeping an eye on the grave yard and so far only 7 dwarves have been put to rest because of dragon taming's many pitfalls. A ghost has just risen though, so that ¤ash¤ might be part of Urist.

[Gizogin]

I think you'll find that the cage traps will be covered/destroyed by the floor falling on them, unless your trap is actually a ring or two parallel rows of traps around where the floor will fall.  Depending on how the dragons scatter and on their injuries, it's still possible that the dragons will not be captured, though it's probably not likely.

[simonthedwarf]

Lesson:Fortifications do not stop dragon fire. I really wish there was some way to protect the miners as they channel around the dragons.

[buzz killington]

You would think the threat of fire would make them dig faster 

[Starver]

Wooden Training Spear.  As long as the wooden training spear is not on fire, the dwarf holding it is perfectly safe.

[simonthedwarf]

Anyone know something that blocks the dragon fire attack btw?

[Loud Whispers]

Shields

[i2amroy]

But, they breed in worldgen? Hmm... Damn complex spore-based reproductive system.

They don't, or at least don't without modding. Every dragon you find in vanilla will be "one of the first of it's kind" and was created out of nothingness in year 1 along with everything else. That's why every dragon you ever encounter is an adult, because they were all created as adults.

[Eric Blank]

Windows behind fortifications.

Try luring them in with a dog behind windows at least 2 tiles behind fortifications.

But, they breed in worldgen? Hmm... Damn complex spore-based reproductive system.

They don't, or at least don't without modding. Every dragon you find in vanilla will be "one of the first of it's kind" and was created out of nothingness in year 1 along with everything else. That's why every dragon you ever encounter is an adult, because they were all created as adults.

Sorry, but I just tested this with entirely vanilla raws besides some modifications to make finding dragons easier. (by removing other megabeasts.) Reducing dragon egg size was also used, but egg size doesn't really matter in worldgen as far as anyone has shown.

Ok, I got some test results from legends mode of dragon reproductive behavior in worldgen:
- They can breed as young as age 23, within 67 years after worldgen begins (so probably as soon as worldgen brings them in touch with one-another)
- They will not have multiple children born on the same year despite laying up to 3 eggs in-game, from the numerous subjects I've found with any children.
- Females will breed with different males each time. No incestual relationships noticed, but I didn't look that hard.

Incomplete study results:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- Breeding in Worldgen
   - First world, region 5, 500 year worldgen
      - First (noted) male dragon child born in: 177 to Obin Taxtreasures the Diamond Sparks
      - First (noted) female dragon child born in: 237 to Niweni Taxedpearl the bejeweled Sparks

         - This world was not researched much because I opted to move on to one without werebeasts and night trolls, to reduce the complexity of finding dragon lairs.

   - Second world, region 4 (save files shuffled), 500 year worldgen, no werebeasts or night trolls.
      - First (noted) female dragon child born in: 88 to Mistrum Glowingsweltered the Jade Taxes.
      - First (noted) male dragon child born in: 67 to Palath Wealthtaxed the Brands of Gilding.
      ++Living Female dragon child test subjects
         - b. 88, Keshan Torridfires the Warm Fortune of Brands, born to Mistrum Glowingsweltered the Jade Taxes (mother) and
         Limar    Brandparched the Torrid Luxury (Father). Gave birth to Sarvesh Taxbranded the Fires of Flame in 415, who in turn
         fathered Zangu. Resides in [The Jade Wealth (lair)]
         - b. 347, Ziril Brandflickered the Sweltering Flare, born to Abli Hotbranded the Parched Jewel in [Parchedsilver (lair)] (Mother)
         and Amayi Jadetaxes the Wealthy Pearl of Flickers, in [Warmthtaxed (lair)] (Father). Resides in [Firetaxed the Silvery Fortune (lair)].

         - b: 475, Zangu Furnaceflickered, born to Palath Wealthtaxed the Brands of Gilding (mother) and Sarvesh Taxbranded the Fires
         of Flame (father, B. 415). Gave birth to Slusa the Sizzling Fortune, son, in 498, at age 23, who does not appear in legends.
         Resides in [Taxtreasures the Brands of Parching (lair)]

Children of Palath Wealthtaxed the Brands of Gilding
   Zedan Parchedsilver, Male, b. 67    Father: Palath Jadeflickered the Gilded Flames      Children: Sloron Taxjewel the Silvery Warmth, son, B. 85, d. 347
   Limul Sizzledparches, Female, b. 330    Father: Lelgo Sparkgild the Luxurious Fire of Diamond   Children: None
   Zangu Furnaceflickered Female, b. 475    Father: Sarvesh Taxbranded the Fires of Flame      Children: Slusa the Sizzling Fortune, son, B. 498, no legends entry. Presumed alive. Location unknown.

and here are the parameters for the world and RAW edits used, and some questions and stuff.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

- test questions
   - Do dragons really breed in worldgen? (Hypothesis: Yes, I've seen it happen before. With mods, though.)
   - If yes, then how early do dragons begin to breed? (Hypothesis: less than 200, because I can't generate medium worlds for very long and have seen it occur in my medium-sized worlds)
   - Do dragons breed after worldgen? (Hypothesis: No fucking clue.)
   - When do dragons reach sexual maturity after worldgen? (Hypothesis: Possibly at birth if capable of breeding, due to lack of CHILD:x tag and apparent ability to breed in worldgen)
   - If dragons breed after worldgen but are not sexually mature at birth, when do they become sexually mature? (Hypothesis: The most likely point, without specific tags governing them, is at the time they reach maximum body size, which is after 1000 years.

- Independant variables (incomplete)
   - Length of world generation

- Dependent varaibles (incomplete)
   - ability of dragons to breed in worldgen.

- new world gen param set
   - Smaller region duplicate      (base file)
   - increased megabeasts to 35      (more test subjects, unimportant variable in tests)
   - reduced semimegabeast and titan pops to 0      (less competition for test subjects, unimportant variable in tests)
   - decreased pop cap to 1000      (worldgen stability, unimportant variable in tests)
   - increased embark points to 10000   (Ease of testing by providing resources for the dorfs, probably an unimportant variable in tests)
   - increased site cap to 100      (Moar sites! less overcrowding! Unimportant variable in tests.)
   - set end year to 500 and 2000         (Length of world generation, will test whether it has a direct effect on breeding and populations in worldgen. Independent variable)
   - reduced megabeast stop percentage to 10, and begining year to 100      (stop tests before major loss of test subjects)
   - reduced mineral scarcity to 450   (more resources for dorfs, unimportant variable in tests)
   - removed bogeymen         (for ease of adventure mode-based tests)

- RAW edits
   - Removed all other megabeasts and semi-megabeasts besides dragons   (provide test subjects by reducing competition, unimportant variable in tests)
   - reduced dragon egg size to 10.      (according to other !!science!!, reducing gestation period of eggs. reduces wait period of test results. Probably not important to tests because egg hatch time isn't a variable I'm testing for, whether or not they hatch at all is.)



- Test Question Results
   - Do dragons really breed in worldgen?
   - If yes, then how early do dragons begin to breed? before year 100. Individuals may breed as early as age 23.

Please note that I am terrible at actually conducting scientific experiments and rarely use controls. These are questions of observation in a "natural" environment, though. As natural as it can get... This is the sloppiest !!SCIENCE!! I've ever seen and I'm ashamed of it. If you've got suggestions, please help.

So, that's three young (relatively), female test subjects I could possibly use in testing to help determine at what age dragons can breed after worldgen, if at all. I'd have to find males to pair them with, but I think it was possible for any historical figures that are members of your civ to appear in later forts, so they might show up in migrant waves if they're trained well enough, right?

I'm impressed that Zangu bred so young.

I will try to locate dragons in their lairs and embark now.



EDIT: Forgot to mention, it appears that these males that the females are breeding with do not live in the same lair during worldgen.

[i2amroy]

Interesting. Maybe world-generation circumvents some of the normal limits in the game, since I know for certain that they don't breed in fortress mode without the [CHILD:X] token, but maybe world generation follows different rules...

[Eric Blank]

It seems so. It also only began with one of the recent updates.

Edit: Supreme victory!

I've located the lair of Zangu and her son, Slusa, and embarked. Right behind their door. Oh crap...

I managed to get a wall built around the wagon and get everyone except the two cats I brought inside. The cats' first thoughts were of the rodent population in the lair, so they went downstairs and pissed off the locals, setting the map ablaze just before the wagon was sealed off. Zangu seems pissed.


So, my first observations:
- never make the center of your embark the location of the lair you're investigating. Too close to the wagon.
- Don't bring cats when investigating dragons
- Both Zangu and her son register as adult dragons.
- I wish runesmith were up to date so I could just force them to be civ members and work from there. !!Fun!! is about to happen.

[Sadrice]

Wouldn't it be easier to make them common domestic and pet, and just bring a breeding pair on embark?

[Eric Blank]

That would be superior for the remaining tests, yes.

[simonthedwarf]

We finally have a big population of dwarves (47). We also have iron, so I can make spare picks. Now I just have to get the dragon into the right room.

[Walkaboutout]

I'd like to add my two cents to this thread. I mostly lurk, but I've played a bit off and on. I too wanted to breed dragons. While I don't think I have a layer with a breeding pair on my embark, what I do have, by chance, is a nearby Goblin civ that I'm at war with.

In my first invasion from these guys, they brought War Cave Dragons. Now, I truly didn't realize the significance of this, since it was one of my first 34.07 games. I did peek at their site while I was in Legends Viewer, and they do indeed have a pair of "Outcast Cave Dragons" at their site, which I presumed was their breeding pair. Again, I didn't think much on the significance of this until reading this thread.

I'm not currently at home right now, so I can't get into my game and examine the goblin site more carefully. Also, I don't think I've seen a group of 12 War Cave Dragons come with an invasion wave since that first wave happened (I was sealed off from them on the map, in a somewhat undorfly fasion, so I survived the invasion and didn't kill any of the Cavies).

Again, as I said, I will get home, and examine their site in Legends Viewer. Maybe it's possible to cage and capture those cave dragons during an invasion. Hopefully I get another invasion with them. I just thought I'd throw my situation out there. Maybe we can't get true dragons, but perhaps those dilapidated cave dragons would serve as a poor substitute for pure-bred dragons.