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Author Topic: Fortress design  (Read 10370 times)

TSTwizby

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2012, 12:07:05 am »

For the most efficient forts, don't use stairs. Use ramp corridors

Well, for the most efficient forts, restrict all dwarves to one z-level. This is difficult in practice however.

I usually have my fort divided into a couple of sections. There's the bedrooms/diningroom/foodstorage area, which has the dining room right next to a food and drink stockpile with a brewer and cook right next to it to one side and large swathes of bedrooms on the other, along with a hospital/well and any barracks I need. There is the farm area, which has farms, a farmer's workshop and as many animals as I can fit in it. I usually need to keep more animals down in the caverns to prevent starving, and put another workshop down there for shearing purposes. Right outside the entrance I have a butcher/tanner and refuse stockpile and right inside I have a trade depot along with a bunch of craft/gem cutter workshops and a craft/clothing storage area. I usually put my other workshops between there and the bedrooms, unless there's a big z-level distance between the two for some reason. And finally I have a magma forge area, hopefully close to the rest of the fort but down in the caverns if necessary. If it is down there, then I have some food/bedrooms for the smiths set up as well.

I try to keep all my hallways 2 tiles wide, unless they're in a high traffic area in which case I make them  3 tiles wide. I don't leave unnecessary walls up, and I make my bedrooms 3x3 for normal citizens and 5x5 for nobles.




In my most recent fort I'm trying to build a set of large mid-air disks on which to house my dwarves, supplied with magma and water via pump-filled columns. Most of this isn't built yet, and none of the water/magma stuff will be set up until the end due to trouble in placing windmills. I intend divided it into four areas to make the best use of the water/magma. There are three smaller disks with one central one in the middle connecting them together.

One disk has all my farm workers and food preparers, with a few bedrooms for them, a few areas covered in grass for livestock if possible and a few covered in mud for farming. There will probably be a couple layered disks here with workers for that layer housed on one side of the disk. On top will be a bunch of windmills to power the pump stack for water when I need it.

The next disk has all of the workshops related to fortress-specific items, like furniture, mechanisms, that sort of thing. There isn't anything special about it, it just is there to not take up space on the central disk.

The last smaller disk has all the crafts and clothing makers on it, as well as a trade depot and the mayor's residence. It is the only disk with a direct connection to the ground, which is a spiral ramp which is designed to let caravans up. There will be a bunch of traps set up to stop intruders, along with some war-trained animals to stop any kobolds who get past the traps.

The central disk is the big one. There will be a mini-aquifer system to take extra water from the farm area, which will be piped over to fill in a small reservoir with a couple of wells around it and a fountain/mist generator in the center. There will be a small statue garden/courtyard area around the fountain, and a few dining areas around the courtyard. Some closed in, some open air for exposure to the waterfall. There will be a bunch of warehouses, a barracks which will house mostly marksdwarves, and a hospital near the wells. There will be bridges connecting it to the other disks, which will all be detachable in case of an emergency. There will be some apartment blocks, some nicer houses, and a small palace for the non-mayor nobles. Down underneath this disk is the forge area, with some magma piped up to it, along with a nice big mamga reservoir. There will be an emergency hatch to dump all the magma, as well as a pump to pull the magma up to the surface and spit it out through the fountain in case of emergencies.


My only regret about this is that the site I chose freezes up in the winter, which makes my fountain somewhat impermanent and dangerous. But the rest of the site's design is so awesome that I couldn't not go with it: there is a row of hills right under where I want to put the disks, which is a nice place to base the pillars I want to set them on, there's an aquifer for me to pull water from, and a volcano in the middle of one of the hills on which to build the central disk. Lots of mica, Plenty of soil, and right at the meeting point of three deserts and a savannah, so I've got plenty of sand and wood.

I'm hoping that by restricting workers to their disks, apart from some haulers to carry food and stuff around, I can avoid excessive fps trouble like I've had in past forts. Acquiring raw materials will be difficult though.
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I got a female and male dragon on my embark. I got cagetraps on the exits but im struggling to find a way to make them path into it.
Live bait.
3 dwarfs out of 7 dead so far

BirdofPrey

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2012, 01:24:11 am »

Sounds interesting.  I don't suppose you have pictures or diagrams.
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TSTwizby

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2012, 01:27:43 am »

Nothing interesting yet. I've got a few sketches, but they're hideously ugly, and I'm only just starting to build the actual disks at the moment. I intend to post some pictures once I have something to look at though.
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I got a female and male dragon on my embark. I got cagetraps on the exits but im struggling to find a way to make them path into it.
Live bait.
3 dwarfs out of 7 dead so far

BirdofPrey

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2012, 01:41:46 am »

I look forward to seeing it.

Speaking of which, I know there's a website that people have posted shots of their forts on (though I seem to have forgotten where it is for the moment)
Are there any forts I should take a look at specifically for their exemplary design?
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TSTwizby

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2012, 01:49:25 am »

I think you're thinking of http://dffd.wimbli.com/index.php. Loads of stuff uploaded here. As for impressive fortress design, I recommend looking through the CMOA pages on DF's TVTropes page.
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I got a female and male dragon on my embark. I got cagetraps on the exits but im struggling to find a way to make them path into it.
Live bait.
3 dwarfs out of 7 dead so far

BirdofPrey

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2012, 02:10:27 am »

Nope not it, but I will have a look at it nevertheless.  What I saw had an interface for uploading your fort so others could navigate it in a web interface.
Also, directing me to TvTropes i like giving crack to a druggie.  I'll be back in 5 days.

Edit:  AHA, Dwarf Fortress Map Archive.  I would be looking for something that's exactly what it says on the tin.  Any choice forts I should search for?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 02:17:38 am by BirdofPrey »
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Graebeard

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2012, 09:23:17 am »

If you're interested in epic design, be sure to check out flarechannel and undergrotto.  There are threads for both on the forums as well.  I'll give a shoutout to skyscrapes, too (which I had a lot of fun helping out with), if you're interested in seeing something more big than efficient, per se.  There is a wealth of links in the legends thread stickied over in the community games board.
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At last, she is done.

BirdofPrey

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2012, 02:29:56 am »

O_o  Those are extremely epic.  Props to the architects.
===
I hope to one day be able to do something like that.  For the moment, I am trying to just manage the 80 dwarves that I have and try to not drown while trying to think of how to make my next fort more efficient.

I have begun to brainstorm a new workshop design.  No idea if it is any good (also still waiting for people to post their ideas of the best workshop design similar to how there's an entire thread on bedroom design).  I plan on having my workshop floor separated into 3 levels, middle is the access way and contains material caches with workshops on the levels above and below the caches (other space can be used for machinery or non workshop access) and each workshop unit will have an up/down staircase leading to an input stockpile below and an output stockpile above.

How does movement across Z levels work?  Can dwarves go diagonally up and down (ie go down one level and north one tile the same way they can go north a tile and east a tile at the same time).  I am wondering if my workshops would best be connected to the caches with ramps or stairs.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2012, 05:55:21 pm »

It takes a Dwarf 1 round of it's movement to go from a down stair to an up stair, and then another to any square adjacent to the up stair. Ramps cover the same distance in 1 round. This difference is negligible though, so you're better off just choosing the most space efficient set up.

Also, walling in Dwarves with workshops is an instant-fun ticket.

TSTwizby

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2012, 09:45:44 pm »

Don't ramps also reduce pathing a bit, by restricting the number of directions the dwarf can head?
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I got a female and male dragon on my embark. I got cagetraps on the exits but im struggling to find a way to make them path into it.
Live bait.
3 dwarfs out of 7 dead so far

Taffer

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2012, 11:18:21 am »

I have a style that I've taken to lately that I love, and will probably stick with. Very, organic, making good use of engraved tiles. I tunnel in random directions and take all the minerals, fuel, flux stone I can tunnel out. If I run out of pathways or need space for a workshop, I simply dig out space accordingly, trying to make it look nice, retaining the organic feel. Whenever I get bored or have too many idlers, I simply dig out random tunnels to see what I find. I generally turn mining on for almost every dwarf, and have picks to spare.

I have central pathways and spiral rampways that I smooth out. I love the idea of a central fortress design, with smoothed walls, in the middle of an epic network of tunnels and cave systems, rather then an isolated pocket in the middle of boring unexplored rock. Plus, I can smooth out and engrave all of the tunnel systems, as engraved walls look odd next to smoothed walls, but fantastic next to natural walls. I have a screenshot up already in my tileset thread. I'll probably keep going until most of the empty digging space on many levels is tunneled out in random pathways, or until everybody dies.

Is it the most efficient? No, and I don't particularly care. Perhaps I'm lucky or my computer is nice, but FPS death generally takes quite a while to kick in for me, and I usually have enough idlers around that I don't mind them taking longer navigating the increasingly confusing maze. It also seems more dwarfy to me. I have an easier time picturing them running around, greedily mining for minerals, fuel, flux stone, and whatever nice stone catches their fancy than the customary system of digging out only precise hallways and rooms, all carefully laid out, largely ignoring possible gemstones on many z-levels.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 11:32:33 am by Taffer »
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Stormfeather

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2012, 02:10:58 pm »

I also haven't been going for "most efficient," I just go with what I like and have developed over time, although I try to shave things a bit here and there to make them more effecient, gradually.

Outside: Any pastures until I get underground pastures dug out/the caverns breached for spore propogation. Plus a small refuse dump (with the useful "refuse" forbidden) and garbage dump near the entrance, for use until I get the underground ones made. I used to put my aboveground farms and my bee hives out there too, but have recently started digging out areas for them, channeling out on top, and making sure there are no ramps left leading between the outside and the farm area. I link it directly to where my troops muster for invasions, and trap the hallway.

Entry level: One main entrance hall, trapped (eventually) to hell and back, and doors on either end. Beyond that is the area where my troops are stationed for an outside-level invasion, with the stairs leading down into the rest of my fortress. As mentioned I've also been putting my "outside" farm on this level, as well as the beehives. I also include a Trading Depot on this level, in a burrowed-out space with a three-tile-wide access that can be shut by a drawbridge, and it also has access to the rest of the fortress, usually via the troop-muster-area just to be safe. A stockpile for crafts is below it, since those are generally just for trading purposes.

The next few levels are dedicated to farming and ranching. I usually put one big central room around the stairs leading up and down, which has my farming workshops, querns, screw press, butchers and tanners, and one craftsdwarf shop and leather shop. Around this are a few stockpiles for leather, tools, bones, animal corpses (behind doors), etc., to keep them close to the workshops that use them. I usually put my underground farm on this level as well, in some area that has soil, with stockpiles across the hall that hold some of the plants (the ones that need milled, processed, etc.), and seeds. Also on the first few levels are pastures, depending on what areas have soil, how much space I have to work with, etc. Of course, getting these up and running requires the caverns to be breached. The lowermost "farming" level, where it often is at least partly rocky, is usually dedicated to my "bird" pastures - the stuff that doesn't need to graze, but does need nesting boxes to reproduce/produce tasty tasty eggs. Each pasture has doors on its access points so that I can lock the birds in and keep the eggs from being disturbed, if need be. I aim to eventually have each bird species in its own pasture. (Usually 20x20 spaces.)

Right below the farming area is my military level. One barracks for each squad, with beds, weapon rack, armor rack, and archery target. As well as a cabinet and chest, although I don't think they actually get used. (More for the flavor, I guess.) Those are off to the right, along with a central stockpile zone for backpacks, quivers, and flasks, to keep an eye on how many I have/need. To the left is the bedroom, dining area, and "office" of my sheriff/captain of the guard. The office is actually pretty big, and includes jail cells, restraints, etc. In the center of the level, I have an animal training zone to the north of the stairs, and to the south a kennel, with my animal stockpile to the south of that.

Next is my working area, with my general workshops and stockpiles (both for materials, and finished products).

Below that is my living area - my main dining room to the right along with kitchens and main food/drink stockpiles, to the left, my hospital, chief dwarf's room/office/etc. (yeah, they don't need an office technically, but he gets one!), and well. Oh, and a dormitory for use until I get all the bedrooms up and running. Speaking of which, the bedrooms also go into this level, all around the centralized area that I've already mentioned. There are four hallways leading in the four main directions from the stairs, and at the first intersection for each of them, I have a dwarven bath filled with level 2-3 water, so dwarves going through end up washing contaminants off themselves.

The next level, as expected, is dedicated to a water system. A tank to hold the water that I drain off from a river/brook (or sometimes just murky pools, but I usually try to embark on running water), with channels to the cistern for my hospital well, and each of the four baths (which go down into this level, since they're channeled from the level above). A number of floodgates and levers are involved.

Below the water system is my office area, and theoretically my throne room for whenever I manage to get the king and his retinue. Pretty much what it says on the tin: bedrooms, offices, and dining areas for my nobles.

Next is my leisure zone: a level with a communal statue garden to the north, to the south a zoo (with built cages of wild animals and hostiles I've caught), to the right is the aquarium (with, well, aquariums built in it, holding various live fish I have my fisherdwarves catch.) The zoo and aquarium are marked as meeting areas, so that the dwarves can hang out pretty much all through the level when they have free time.

Next is the burial zone. One big graveyard with built coffins for common dwarves and pets, with some spaces left for memorial slabs if I need them. To the right I eventually build tombs for my military captains, with tombs to the left for my nobles. There's also a corpse stockpile behind doors, for if burials are backed up for whatever reason. (Read: siege out-killing my prepared coffins, etc.)

Below the burial is, well, the trash level. An indoor garbage dump to the north, another refuse pile for non-useful refuse to the south, both behind doors.

The next level is a secondary dining room, with more kitchens/stills. Below that is my arena, where I get rid of any extra hostiles/wild animals and train my military all in one swoop. The dining hall above it has parts of the floor channeled out, for the dwarves' viewing pleasure.

That's pretty much all I have so far, except eventually for some magma furnaces/etc. if and when I reach the magma sea, since I haven't experimented yet with pumping magma up to the main fortress. I really do need to do that at some point.
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BirdofPrey

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2012, 04:44:21 am »

Aaaand a bump.

What kind of changes have you guys made to utilize/accommodate minecarts?
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Jingles

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2012, 05:46:14 am »

http://mkv25.net/dfma/index.php is the site you're looking for.

Burmalay

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Re: Fortress design
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2012, 11:51:25 am »

You can defend your entrance with proximity mine:
Build a pressure-plate & make a pen/pasture on it and assign an animal.
When enemy kill or scare this animal, it move from the pressure plate which activates the trigger with trap.
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