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[Loud Whispers]

1. Nice, flat desert with no metals or plants.

Job done

[wierd]

Deconstruct wagon. Build a depot.

Trade the crutches and cloth from the initial vanilla embark for a pick, and some wood.

Dig down to create subteranean crop square.

Build still.

Hold out for pansy elves to come.

Sell plump helmets. Get surface plants (buy plants, not seeds. Dwarves eat the plants, and you get seeds for free.) And wood.

Destroy the subterene farm plot, destroy the roof. This makes it into an aboveground pit, preserving the challenge.

Build surface crop farmland.

Build clothier shop (wood). Build loom (wood). Build farmers workshop (wood).

Make cloth. Lots and lots of cloth.  Humans show up.  Sell cloth. Buy wood, meat, empty barrels, and any stone they have.

Initiate proper fortress construction.

[EpsilonSigma]

Not that much of a challenge at all. Metal beds, stone bins

Stockpiling isn't exactly key to survival. It helps to keep things neat and tidy in piles of lots, but if you have to take up your entire first dirt layer with storage then so be it. Bins are unnecessary

Metals beds require metal. Metal requires charcoal or magma.
Smithing metal requires charcoal, or magma.
The chances of getting magma under control and usable before being invaded or subject to Fun in this challenge are close to 0.
Charcoal requires WOOD

-----

@Above
Can't clothier and farmer's shops be built out of rock? :S

[GavJ]

no water source, but shrubs allowed would be more challenging by far.  Since you'd have to manage to brew stuff from your own crops before they died of thirst.

[wierd]

no water source, but shrubs allowed would be more challenging by far.  Since you'd have to manage to brew stuff from your own crops before they died of thirst.

I do this all the time anyway.

Set some herbalists, mass designate a bushy area for berry picking, build a food stockpile, deconst the wagon, produce a still.

Produce another food stockpile, and a furniture stockpile.

Set properties on the first to forbid barrels, and forbid drinks.  On the second, permit barrels, but forbid non drinks.

Barrels empty from munchie attacks, get put in furniture pile. Brewer makes cheap pricleberry koolaid.  Fortress doesn't need water.

I don't get around to building wells until I am ready to make and stock a hospital zone!

[GavJ]

Not that much of a challenge at all. Metal beds, stone bins

Stockpiling isn't exactly key to survival. It helps to keep things neat and tidy in piles of lots, but if you have to take up your entire first dirt layer with storage then so be it. Bins are unnecessary

Metals beds require metal. Metal requires charcoal or magma.
Smithing metal requires charcoal, or magma.
The chances of getting magma under control and usable before being invaded or subject to Fun in this challenge are close to 0.
Charcoal requires WOOD

-----

@Above
Can't clothier and farmer's shops be built out of rock? :S

I'm pretty sure metal beds also require magic and/or cheating, since they don't exist...


@wierd, oh yeah i forgot you can just brew stuff you gather directly.  Nevermind, also easy.

[wierd]

Yes, farmers workshops can be made from stone.

Elves don't have stone to sell.  Only hippy tiedyes, hallucenogenic surface plants, and wood, and phallic devices.

The caravan arrival order is

1) initial dwarf caravan
2) elf caravan
3) human caravan, if lucky
4) dwarf caravan

You nuke the wagon asap, which gives you 3 logs.  You use these to build the depot. Dwarf caravan shows up. You trade initial equipment of cloth (keep the bins), splints, and crutches. You buy the missing pick. (I assume this is a "surface only" embark challenge that forbids embarking with a pick). Take the cheapest copper one. This will cost all your trade goods most likely. If you have leftover, buy wood and stone. (Desert. Deep soil, no stone)

Dig out a small hole to grow plump helmets in.  Set up a still. Set up food and furniture piles as per above post.

Wait for elves.

Sell plump helmets. Buy surface crops. Buy wood. Buy cloth if needed (shouldn't have rotty clothes yet, but you never know.)

Use wood to build cloth industry. Grow ropereeds. Make cloth.

Humans show up.  Buy stone, metal, wood, lightsabers, misc weapons dwarvs can use.

Make a safehouse.

Continue making cloth.  Dwarves show up. Buy the whole damned caravan.

Fortress underway.

[GavJ]

New, much more challenging, but still possible, challenge.  Requirements:

1) start in a zero tree, scorching biome with no streams or lakes or oceans.
2) Set your caverns to all have zero water.
3) Bring NO starting equipment.
4) You are not allowed to kill or steal from traders or use anything that any invaders brought with them onto the map.
5) No trading is allowed, except to export items to the dwarves purely as donations (to trigger nobility conditions).
6) Obnoxious and less important requirement:  Every building or construction you make must be made out of soap (with the exception of a single one of each: a still, a carpenter's shop, a wood furnace, an ashery, and a soap maker's.  However, these also must be replaced with soap versions of themselves before you are allowed to build anything else). Extra challenging version (which may or may not actually possible to win): remove the still from the list of exceptions.

You are allowed to embark anywhere you wish, as long as it is scorching, has no trees, and no water, etc. (above requirements).

You win when your fortress becomes a mountainhome.

[wierd]

See previous post in other thread. Impossible criteria.

Requires access to additional raw materials. Requires a means to procure stone. With trade out of the question, requires initial equip of 1 pick, and 1 anvil.

Alternatively, "5 finger discount" on caravans. Don't sell. Thus, "not trade".

[slothen]

so is the point to dick around on the surface for half a year before building your fortress? or to do what you can embarking in a difficult area?  or to do what you can while bringing no goods on embark?

The OP mentioned not having anything in the wagon, in which limits you to three logs.  If you have no trees for surface wood, then your dwarves will have to survive on natural surface water because there will be no barrels until the caravan.  Food will have to come from fishing, plant gathering, or hunting.  Probably the hardest way to do it and still have a chance to build a real fortres would be to embark on a rocky wasteland, with no ambusher dwarves, and fish and drink water for two seasons, then deconstruct the fishery and build a depot.  Even then you'll want to deconstruct a depot because you'll hardly have anything to trade unless you murder a dwarf and sell his clothes for wood/booze.  With an ambusher you could have some crafts ready.

[GavJ]

See previous post in other thread. Impossible criteria.

Requires access to additional raw materials. Requires a means to procure stone. With trade out of the question, requires initial equip of 1 pick, and 1 anvil.

Alternatively, "5 finger discount" on caravans. Don't sell. Thus, "not trade".

Addressing your points:
1) I just added "no stealing or using goblinite, etc." to requirements.
2) You don't need metal to become a mountainhome, as far as I know.  So thus you don't need an anvil or metal.
3) You don't need stone to become a mountainhome either, as far as I know.

The requirements are based on exported wealth and population and such.  Exported wealth can be from donating anything.

And there IS a way to get other raw materials with my criteria.  I just tested it before posting it.

[psychologicalshock]

No offense but this sounds like an extremely dull challenge.

[slothen]

See previous post in other thread. Impossible criteria.

Requires access to additional raw materials. Requires a means to procure stone. With trade out of the question, requires initial equip of 1 pick, and 1 anvil.

Alternatively, "5 finger discount" on caravans. Don't sell. Thus, "not trade".

Addressing your points:
1) I just added "no stealing or using goblinite, etc." to requirements.
2) You don't need metal to become a mountainhome, as far as I know.  So thus you don't need an anvil or metal.
3) You don't need stone to become a mountainhome either, as far as I know.

The requirements are based on exported wealth and population and such.  Exported wealth can be from donating anything.

And there IS a way to get other raw materials with my criteria.  I just tested it before posting it.

Forget being a mountainhome, its not possible to survive under those conditions.  No water, no mining, 3 logs and no means to procure more wood or stone.  You'll have to have plants  for booze (since you didn't specify no plants on embark), but no means to produce barrels or pots to store booze without using precious logs.

So what do you mean by "NO starting equipment?"  I was under the impression that meant only 7 dwarves, their clothes, two random pack animals, and a wagon.

[wierd]

The only material I can think of that can be harvested without tools is clay.

Pen/pasture the initial grass munchers on a single tile so they rapidly eat it all, exposing the naked clay.

Harvest and store in a stone stockpile.

Make adobe *everythings*, and hope for the best.

[GavJ]

See previous post in other thread. Impossible criteria.

Requires access to additional raw materials. Requires a means to procure stone. With trade out of the question, requires initial equip of 1 pick, and 1 anvil.

Alternatively, "5 finger discount" on caravans. Don't sell. Thus, "not trade".

Addressing your points:
1) I just added "no stealing or using goblinite, etc." to requirements.
2) You don't need metal to become a mountainhome, as far as I know.  So thus you don't need an anvil or metal.
3) You don't need stone to become a mountainhome either, as far as I know.

The requirements are based on exported wealth and population and such.  Exported wealth can be from donating anything.

And there IS a way to get other raw materials with my criteria.  I just tested it before posting it.

Forget being a mountainhome, its not possible to survive under those conditions.  No water, no mining, 3 logs and no means to procure more wood or stone.  You'll have to have plants  for booze (since you didn't specify no plants on embark), but no means to produce barrels or pots to store booze without using precious logs.

So what do you mean by "NO starting equipment?"  I was under the impression that meant only 7 dwarves, their clothes, two random pack animals, and a wagon.

no means to procure more wood or stone

False.

So what do you mean by "NO starting equipment?"  I was under the impression that meant only 7 dwarves, their clothes, two random pack animals, and a wagon.

Correct.