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[Blizzlord]

If you don't mind having any volcanoes you could remove the volcanism altogether. Bam! Problem solved.

[GavJ]

If you don't mind having any volcanoes you could remove the volcanism altogether. Bam! Problem solved.

Problem not solved, because that could not have been the problem in the first place.   Hematite exists in volcano igneous extrusive layers.  The whole entire map could be volcanic geology, and there should still be iron everywhere.

[Blizzlord]

If you don't mind having any volcanoes you could remove the volcanism altogether. Bam! Problem solved.

Problem not solved, because that could not have been the problem in the first place.   Hematite exists in volcano igneous extrusive layers.  The whole entire map could be volcanic geology, and there should still be iron everywhere.

Thread about sedimentary layers --> people arguing over the presence of hematite in igneous extrusive layers. The question was about sedimentary layers.

[Chagen46]

I have the same problem as the OP. The site finder must be bugged or something, even if I give it only one variable to search for (like "find all tiles with rivers) the game will still deliver nothing.

[Thudde]

I use lazy noob pack and generating standard random worlds with minerals set to frequent or higher.  I always have to start 5-10 sites before I can find a single location with any Iron at all.  Thats with a 4x5 embark.

[Garath]

thats a second point: iron is NOT everywhere. Boohoo you if you don't have any, make do with copper, bronze, silver and goblinite. If you're a true dwarf you'll manage.


*team of dwarf engineers high fives*
"told you copper spiked balls would be more effecive than serrated discsmade from copper!"

[GavJ]

If you don't mind having any volcanoes you could remove the volcanism altogether. Bam! Problem solved.

Problem not solved, because that could not have been the problem in the first place.   Hematite exists in volcano igneous extrusive layers.  The whole entire map could be volcanic geology, and there should still be iron everywhere.

Thread about sedimentary layers --> people arguing over the presence of hematite in igneous extrusive layers. The question was about sedimentary layers.

No, thread is TITLED about sedimentary layers.  Thread is actually about iron and flux, both of which can be found directly next to volcanoes (marble is almost always right nearby volcanoes)

OP:

I just started using 34.07, but I have a problem. There isnt any iron to be found. I generated multiple worlds, using reveal and prospect on DFHack to check. After about 5 worlds and 3 forts per world, there is no iron to be found. I eventually tried using the desired location feature and searching for Flux stone. There isnt any flux stone on the map either. Anyone else having this problem?

The only thing that sedimentary layers have anything to do with this is insofar as the OP may not know that what he actually cares about does not require sedimentary layers.

[rtg593]

.31 was murder for me finding iron. 0.34 has rocked. Like, for instance, that world I posted with a volcano where you have everything you need to make 30,000 bars of steel without digging any deeper than 10 z-levels down

The shallow first cavern being an ocean surrounded by forest was just icing on the cake :p

[Blizzlord]

(marble is almost always right nearby volcanoes)

Almost always is an interesting concept. Nothing forces it to be a metamorphic layer and nothing says it will be likely.

[GavJ]

(marble is almost always right nearby volcanoes)

Almost always is an interesting concept. Nothing forces it to be a metamorphic layer and nothing says it will be likely.

I strongly suspect that toady has hard coded a lot more complexity into geology than simply "volcanoes are extrusive all else is random herp derp."  And in real life, metamorphic rock is extremely likely to be near volcanoes, since metamorphic rock is formed by heat and pressure, and volcanoes have heat, and volcanoes usually form at plate boundaries and stuff where deep, pressurized rock is being brought up fresh from below nearby.

Thus, it is quite likely that the chances of metamorphic nearby are much higher than average.  I just know that I have almost never seen sedimentary rock by volcanoes, and that I see metamorphic almost every time.

[Urist Da Vinci]

I strongly suspect that toady has hard coded a lot more complexity into geology than simply "volcanoes are extrusive all else is random herp derp."...

http://www.bay12games.com/media/df_talk_18_transcript.html#18.12

Also, release 2 of the caravan arc is supposed to contain "Work with 3D mineral veins and mine maps". Geology is currently more like random paint splatter.

[GavJ]

That link did not say anything about geology... it talks about basic first year psychology principles without any specifics about what we are discussing.

Nor does your second quote about 3d mineral veins imply anything about how geology is determined, other than that veins are 2 dimensional, which we all knew already.

AFAIK, therefore, your conclusion that "geology is like random paint splatter" is only backed up by your best guess.  Mine is a bit of guess + actual data, which is that I have started about 20 volcano forts, and exactly one had any sedimentary stone (I check them all routinely with dfhack reveal and prospect all).  At least 10 have had flux, which is easy for me to count up exactly, because I abandon the fort if it doesn't have flux, and I have 10 saved forts right now with volcanoes.

So at the most conservative, there is a 9:1 ratio (one of those saved forts might be the sedimentary one) of metamorphic present:sedimentary present on volcano maps I know about.



The probability of me being wrong and this having happened by random chance, by a 2 tailed fisher's exact 2x2 contingency table = 0.8%   Pretty convincing data to me.

[Urist Da Vinci]

It's probably something more like the absence of sedimentary rock rather than the presence of metamorphic rock.

If you remove [REACTION_CLASS:FLUX] from marble, you can use the site finder to locate all the Limestone, Dolomite, and Chalk in the world. Much of it will be at the seashore because the ocean floor has a limestone layer.

If you remove [REACTION_CLASS:FLUX] from everything, and then add it to hematite, you can turn the "flux" finder into a hematite finder. I just test-embarked on a rhyolite mountain with hematite, and no real flux. Remember to restore the raws prior to embarking. You could use this to map where in the world various stones can be found, if you want to create a theory about their distribution.

[GavJ]

I only had metamorphic on my volcano map 50% of the time.  So one rhyolite mountain with no metamorphic nearby is not terribly shocking or inconsistent with that data.

Also, I usually run a pretty big map (like 6x6 or so), so standard embarks might have significantly lower numbers than mine for both sedimentary and metamorphic (like 2.5x lower?), also without being inconsistent with the data, simply because smaller maps have fewer geological biomes in the first place.

Anyway yeah I know you COULD go and test it really thoroughly.  That just sounds like the most boring !!SCIENCE!! ever.  More like ,,science,,

[chris_strain]

I had a lot of luck recently with finding sedimentary layers surrounding volcanoes by tinkering with adv gen settings. Allowing a high x/y variance on volcanism lets it begin and end abruptly. Setting the weighted range to highly favour the 0-20 and 80-100 ranges, in my experience, seems to give more room for sed layers. With these kind of gen settings roughly 60% of the volcanoes I look at that are near lakes/oceans/marshes will have some amount of iron. Despite what the site finder says, I don't think I've had a volcano in ages that didn't have at least a few hundred units of marble buried somewhere in the depths of the map. This is with standard (2500) mineral scarcity btw.

Also if you have a specific biome selected alal the F keys, prospect only checks that boime, so I usually expand the embark grid tot he full 16x16 so it checks everything at once instead of going biome by biome. Just my experience on the matter.