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[htabdoolb]

It seems like the lack of clothes generates far too strong of a negative thought. Dwarves with royal bedrooms, who are virtually swimming in booze and dining on masterwork meals in a legendary dining hall within the safety of a nigh indestructible fortress shouldn't be tantruming and murdering each other due to a lack of pants or socks. Especially when they decide to fill said royal bedrooms full to the brim with xsocksx and XpantsX that they refuse to wear or discard.

It feels like clothes are just so much hassle in exchange for very little gain. I haven't noticed my dwarves getting happy thoughts from owning and wearing nice or even masterwork clothing items, so what is the point of putting the effort into training up a skilled weaver/clothier? If it wasn't for the dfhack utilities to clean ownership and dump scattered worn clothing, I would probably go back playing 31.25, where I didn't have to worry about clothing at all.

So my suggestion is to make the negative thoughts given by lack of clothes less strong. I'd also like for dwarves to be pleased with the finery they're wearing if they manage to get a hold of a masterwork clothing item. An option to disable clothes and clothes related thoughts all together would be wonderful as well, as they seem to drag on my fps something terrible. Especially when 100+ dwarves start doing the clothing shuffle when new clothes are made and they all spend a month doffing their old duds, getting new ones, then storing the old ones in their rooms or in important doorways.

[Jheral]

I can only agree - it is especially frustrating as maintainance of clothes is unavailable, so you have to que up new clothes all the time, all the while with the thought in the back of your head that some kid can just come along and claim all of them at once, letting noone who actually needs them get to them (or maybe that has been fixed by now; I don't know - I still see some dwarves claiming excessive clothing, so I assume it hasn't been).

Making the dwarves able to maintain their clothing, through jobs for your tailors, and not switching until they are completely destroyed, rather than just worn, would probably be the best solution, imo.

[Alastar]

Wear is very excessive. Beyond dwarves maintaining their clothes, I'd also like to see:
1) modesty customs under ethics.
2) Familiarity decreasing negative thoughts. If everyone's been running around naked for a while, people wouldn't care.
3) Possibly practicality-related thoughts ("...stepped into something unpleasant" worse when barefoot).

[NTJedi]

I think clothes are worn out too quickly in dwarf fortress.  Makes me think they use sandpaper to wash their clothes.

[Telgin]

Having pretty serious negative thoughts for being naked doesn't seem unreasonable to me.  Maybe it's a touch too serious, but it should be serious.

Fixing the issue of xclothesx getting stored in a dwarf's cabinet and never taken to a refuse pile to rot in is the main issue here really.  I'm happy Toady fixed the issue of not claiming new clothes, since I like the added depth, but this is a pretty key part of the problem.

Adding ethics or other requirement tokens for entities in the raws is an excellent suggestion of course, and one I'd like to see implemented.  For example, I modded in a species with hooves.  Those shouldn't require shoes.  I added metal horseshoes for the to wear as a patch of sorts, but fixing it properly would be even better.

[greenskye]

It feels like a bug to me that they somehow rather go naked than wear xPantsx or even XPantsX. There should be a gradient here where a noble might get annoyed at wearing slightly worn clothing, quite upset at very worn clothing, and furious at being naked.

There also should be some sort of solution where the wrong dwarf claims the new clothes. Nobles should probably get first pick, then dwarves with the most worn clothing, then dwarves with slightly worn clothing. Perhaps children and non-nobles will just check for new clothing less often? Like maybe once every 3 months or so?

Personally I'd be happy if xClothingx didn't generate a need to find new clothing at all. To the player it should just be a sign that you'll need to make new clothes soon. Clothing should also wear much slower than it does currently. At least until we have the concept of owning multiple outfits that they can switch into.

[dizzyelk]

I'd also like to see XclothingX getting patched if there's cloth/thread available but no new clothing. Could give a smaller negative thought. "Was saddened to have to wear patched clothes." That wouldn't be as bad as the uncovered thought. Or maybe it'd just be the one thought instead of stacking like the 3 unclothed ones.

[UHaulDwarf]

The idea of cloths patching is great, but how do you imagine it being implemented?
Dose one dwarf stand at the tailor and get it repaired on the spot or does said dwarf leave the tattered item at the tailor shop?

And why should patched clothing give negative thoughts? If a tailor is skilled enough, one would never know it was patched at all.

Like all things in DF, clothing can get rather elaborate. I.e. +<<*Spider silk Shirt*>>+
It might be better if after a garment reaches a certain level of tatteredness that the dwarf should visit the tailor and order a replacement rather then have it repaired.
An inferior replacement could carry a negative thoughs.

[Raven]

I agree

but a question, if a dwarf doesn't have all the clothes he needs (he misses a pair of socks or goes around without shirt) this generates bad thought anyway?

if that's so, then is veri penalizing

[lordcooper]

Some dwarves should get bad thoughts from wearing clothes.  I know I do.

[slothen]

make clothing wear rates editable in the raws.

AND/OR

slow the wear rate of high quality clothing.

AND/OR

increasing wear already affects value.  Make the dwarf not care about the slight wear on a piece of clothing if the clothing is above a threshold value.

[dizzyelk]

The idea of cloths patching is great, but how do you imagine it being implemented?
Dose one dwarf stand at the tailor and get it repaired on the spot or does said dwarf leave the tattered item at the tailor shop?

And why should patched clothing give negative thoughts? If a tailor is skilled enough, one would never know it was patched at all.

Like all things in DF, clothing can get rather elaborate. I.e. +<<*Spider silk Shirt*>>+
It might be better if after a garment reaches a certain level of tatteredness that the dwarf should visit the tailor and order a replacement rather then have it repaired.
An inferior replacement could carry a negative thoughs.

I'd see it not being an actual job, but something that the dwarf does during a break. Goes and grabs some thread, then sits in his room and patches it. Of course, they could just drop items, and you could assign a "patch clothing" job at the clothesmakers. If my way, it'd be poorly patched, and they'd get the bad thought. If the clothesmaker job way, it'd depend on the skill of the tailor.

[UHaulDwarf]

The problem with patching is that clothing in DF is made in one piece, and degrades in one piece.
                You would not be patching a hole, you would be patching the Whole.
In any case, having dwarfs using resources without being told is a bad idea.

[nidpants]

Dwarves currently eat and drink without being told to do so, and I see this as the same thing - maintaining a civil society. I would imagine wear autocreates jobs at a clothier like rendering fat or tanning a hide. This could be easily set in the Standing Orders menu, and can currently be mitigated by forbidding a certain amount of thread, cloth and leather if all your current stock is used up.

Letting a clothier mend clothes seems natural - if a dwarf has the clothier labor enabled, they'd give it a shot. Skill should probably determine the amount of wear that the mending actually reverts. If you asked me to mend a shirt, the tears would reopen within days. If you asked a skilled seamstress to do it instead, it might last longer than the original clothing did. On top of this, a dwarf should always seek to replace his clothing with something of equal or better quality if available.

I'd say that clothing should only be mendable up to xPig tail shirtx quality, because patches, no matter how well-done, look shoddy.  Using thread alone to upgrade XShirtX to xShirtx and then using a portion of cloth for XXShirtXX to xShirtx seems reasonable.

I'd much rather have my dwarf take a short break to get her shirt fixed up by the clothier than to have her discard her shirt on the floor and end up throwing a tantrum because my cloth and leather supplies can't even keep up with the demand for children's clothes. Having the dwarf drop off her shirt would be problematic since she'd be running around topless in the meantime.

Another idea is using discarded XXQualityXX clothing as rags for patching and mending if no cloth is otherwise available, or possibly in preference to available cloth. Discarding ragged clothing altogether seems quite ahistorical, since preindustrial cloth was worth more than gold by weight due to the high labor intensity of its manufacture. Cloth was never discarded and was always reused for other purposes if possible in preindustrial times due to its value.

Since DF doesn't model most of the things rags are actually used for (dish towels, pitch torches, etc.), being able to use cloth for patches or unweaving then respinning it into thread seems reasonable. Smelters already store portions of material, so storing portions of cloth from respun rags at looms seems likewise reasonable. The quality of the material should probably be set to baseline to prevent looms from having to track stocks of every quality of cloth-portions separately.

I'm definitely +1 on the idea that higher quality clothing wears out a lot more slowly than lower quality, and REDUCING the rate of wear on clothes.

Considering dwarves seem to follow generally European pre-industrial ethics, I'd say that the shame of not being fully clothed in public should be pretty traumatic. There's a reason so many of us have nightmares about not being able to fully cover ourselves. That being said, clothing needs to be better addressed, whether through decreasing wear or increasing output.

My 200 dwarf fortresses usually require 4 or 5 full-time clothiers just to keep up with births and wear.

[ImBocaire]

Perhaps a dwarf who is naked might first seek to separate themselves from other dwarves, whether in a private room or an out-of-the-way corner, to alleviate the embarrassment? It's what I would do. Embarrassment shouldn't lead directly to insanity; it should be a rather more drawn-out process.

I suppose this would first require that dwarves have line-of-sight, however.