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[Hapah]

obolisk0430: Why the hostile tone? The question seems reasonable enough to me. Before your latest post, all you'd done is go after me. I'm guilty of the same sort of focus on borno, but I've been getting jabbed and forced to defend myself; I think my thoughts and opinions are out there.

The votes on me were probably justified; I did a pretty good job of putting my foot in my mouth. borno did seem dodgy in his responses, and he did lash out at anyone that questioned them and tried to put them on the defensive and implicate them as scum instead of trying to change their mind. I'm green enough that I don't know if this is the typical response, but I do think it smells a little off. It's not what I did, anyway.

Supercharazad: I think the last part of your latest point is premature. That comment seems counter-productive: You could be bussing borno yourself, and that phrase could be you setting the stage for a very reasonable mislynch D2. Let's not get ahead of ourselves: wait and see what we get from the lynch and the NK.

borno: newb, noob, color, colour, whatever. Different ways to spell the same thing.

I don't much like that you voted for an Extend, there is definitely activity now, and I think we've bled D1 just about dry (It's been going on, what, nine days?). Let's keep things moving. It appears either you or me are getting lynched, and your extend vote looks like you trying to get your neck out of the noose. I'd rather you get lynched than me, obviously: but I'm not fighting it either way. Lynching me would be unfortunate, but very informative. Even if you flip town, it will still be very informative. (I kinda lost my thread here, but I think you get the gist of it).

PPE: Oh gods, Shakerag wall. I'll try to read it now.

[Supercharazad]

Shakerag:
1: If I were town, which I am, I would act the way I am currently. If I were mafia, I wouldn't act like him at all, I would act in exactly the same way as if I were town. I would aim to lynch anyone that seems scummy. If that meant my partner because he was being stupid, so be it.

2: In that case, I'll reconsider my views on obolisk0430 and begin the search for people who seem scummy. Right now I have a small list of people I find suspicious and who I want to investigate further, but will most likely do so after I see which way Borno flips.

Hapah: The point I was making was that if Borno does flip scum as I believe he will, I have a very good idea of who I'm going to start grilling next.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim:  What happened to Scelly9 and zomara0292 in the replace queue?  And doesn't Dr. Phibes still need a replacement?

I asked them if they wanted to replace in when I took over and they said no. And yes, Dr.Phibes is still in need of a replacement.

Don't worry, man. I'm totally on top of stuff and things.

Day ends 9:00 PM MST Today, in ~ 8.5 hours. There is one vote for an extension and one vote against. Four are required to extend the day.


[4] borno: Hapah, Supercharazad, Flying Dice, Urist Imiknorris
[2] Hapah: obolisk0430, borno

Not Voting: Dr. Phibes, Shakerag, Jiokuy

[Supercharazad]

Uuh, I'll [b vote against extend.[/b]

[Jiokuy]

Vote Against Extend
I'm not necessarily sure lynching Borno is the best route to go. Remember if we mislynch it is one less night we can outnumber the mafia.
That said if we never lynch we can never win, and Borno has given some semi-incriminating (for D1) evidence.
I'm still not convinced enough to non RVS vote him though. I'll leave that to yall if you feel he is scum.

[Supercharazad]

That's rather wishy-washy, Jiokuy.
You're not being productive and scumhunting, leading me to believe you may be scum yourself. What have you got to say for yourself?

[Hapah]

Jiokuy: Can't be afraid to pull the trigger on the town's only weapon. The information, especially this early in, is invaluable. In very power-heavy games it MIGHT (it's probably just my past experiences talking) be alright to no-lynch if D1 is a real snore-fest, but the general rule is that town has to lynch to win, and mislynches are going to happen from time to time.

You'll make mistakes with your speech, and you'll mislynch a townie sometimes. It's just the price of doing business.

[Urist Imiknorris]

obolisk:

Shortly after I started grinding Hapah, a ton of people suddenly started voting him.

Two is a ton? One of whom is a replacement who voted Hapah with his first post?

Urist comes in and nailes borno for suspecting everyone who pressures/votes him
Then suddenly, votes on borno.

Already explained.

Urist is also just shooting off bullshit.  Borno has completely good reasons for acting suspicious of the people voting him: those people have no good reasons what so ever.

News flash: Voting someone D1 for shitty reasons isn't scummy. Suspecting someone for doing so is. Unless scum make a massive slip up like claiming scum, there probably won't be any good reasons for voting someone D1. I seem to remember having said this before.

You're chainsawing for borno awfully hard, aren't you?

borno:

I suspect people who, to me, either haven't posted their reasons for attacking me, or if I find one of their reasons for attacking me faulty.

And what of the people who aren't attacking you?

You have to keep in mind that it is still D1, and I'm trying to introduce the ideas of who is scum and who is scumteam. This is my second (The first one I came in when the game was already finished) mafia, and I still haven't really grasped the concept of being town yet (I was scum in the last one). I admit; I'm trying to not be lynched, but I still don't know how a normal town acts like.

A normal townie is focused on one goal: finding and lynching the scum. Look for people acting suspiciously and question them about it. Pursue anything that seems out of the ordinary.

Jiokuy:

Vote Against Extend
I'm not necessarily sure lynching Borno is the best route to go. Remember if we mislynch it is one less night we can outnumber the mafia.

What do you think is the best route? And if you're not sure about it why vote to oppose an extension?

Supercharazad:

Right now I have a small list of people I find suspicious and who I want to investigate further, but will most likely do so after I see which way Borno flips.

Who?

Uuh, I'll vote against extend.

Why?

[Jiokuy]

Then allow me to clarify.
I am in no way sure Borno is scum.
I understand that lynching is necessary.
Mislynches are a regrettable but necessarily occourance.
Atm we will have a lynch, I would rather not take part in what I would believe to be a mislynch (seeing as I cannot find solid reasons (it's D1)) AND he will currently be lynched anyways, so I will abstain from voting until the point where I am needed for a vote.

This is my first game of fourm mafia and the lack of facial expression is difficult.

[Hapah]

Then allow me to clarify.

Alright.

I am in no way sure Borno is scum.

None of us can be sure. We have suspicions, but we have to act.

I understand that lynching is necessary.

Alright. Then pull the damn trigger.

Mislynches are a regrettable but necessarily occourance.

If it's necessary, then make sure it happens.

Atm we will have a lynch, I would rather not take part in what I would believe to be a mislynch (seeing as I cannot find solid reasons (it's D1)) AND he will currently be lynched anyways,

Dangerous assumption. If any of the people on borno switch it me, it's tied up 3-3 and turns into a no-lynch.

so I will abstain from voting until the point where I am needed for a vote.

Your vote is needed now, in a way. We need someone to hang for information, and me and borno are the two lambs up for slaughter. It's not pretty, but you need to make sure that one of us goes down by either
a.) Ensuring that the vote on borno goes through. Pour it on!
b.) Bring a case against me. If you think I'm the better choice, then spell out why. (and holding your vote here to avoid a tie while people digest your case would be alright, since a mislynch is better than no lynch, but that's not what's happening)

This is my first game of fourm mafia and the lack of facial expression is difficult.

We're Brothers in Noobness (Newbness? Who cares, lol) here. I've never played real-life Mafia, but it's a very different ballgame here than what I'm used to as well. Just have to try to adapt as best you can, and accept that mistakes will be made.

PS: I'm not trying to steal your thunder or anything, IC's. I'm just in a good position to empathize, being a new guy here myself.

[Jiokuy]

I was under the notion that this match did not include hammers?

[Jiokuy]

I should add, that Borno is #1 (though I am skeptical) and if it is tied I will change my vote.

PS sorry for double

[Shakerag]

I should add, that Borno is #1 (though I am skeptical) and if it is tied I will change my vote.

PS sorry for double

[Double (and sometimes triple or quadruple) posting is absolutely fine in these games because you can't edit your posts.  No one will mind.]

[Shakerag]

Jim:  Okay, cool just checking.

Supercharazad:  I more meant that first part as "Does borno's reactions to what is happening to him make sense if he was town?  Do his reactions make sense if he was scum?"  I'm not sure if you caught that distinction or not. 

Jiokuy is passive, distancing scum. 

UI: I don't really see that as chainsawing.  Honestly, to me, borno is reacting like someone getting screwed over, which I'm inclined to think he is.  If he flips scum, then good on all of you.  If he flips town, Hapah and I are going to talk further, I think.

[You are correct, Jiokuy, there are no hammers in beginner's games.]

[Flying Dice]

Sorry I haven't been available for most of today-busy with finals and moving out.
__

Flying Dice@131: Can you clarify what makes you feel that borno is "redirecting suspicion onto Jiokuy"?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I am voting borno because of what I saw as a small scumtell.

On why I'd "start a bandwagon" - This question is LOADED, but I'll play with it anyway. I don't know how I'm "starting a bandwagon" when, to my knowledge, I was the first person to point out what I see as a scumtell, not making things less complex. The original question didn't look complex at all to me, but it had already been asked. It looked like he was making a halfass attempt at scumhunting, so I grabbed onto it.

What the hell is this? First you say that you are voting me 'Because of a small scumtell', but then you say that it is a 'Halfass Attempt at scumhunting'? A 'Halfassed attempt at scumhunting' is much worse than a 'Small Scumtell'! And now, now that I have answered all your questions, fixed my error (My answer would change if it was N1 instead), even found a 'Big Scumtell', yet you still hang onto my vote? And Jiokuy making a lousily hidden bandwagon vote against me starts to make me think that you and Jiokuy could be a scumteam.

Unvote, Vote Hapah.

It was mainly that post. Quite apart from that being the first of several times he responds to pressure by voting/FoSing the person pressuring him, he slipped in that implication that Jiokuy was scum. If he thought that Jiokuy was scum, why didn't he start questioning him? Even after Jiokuy came back, borno has practically ignored him. That says that he is more concerned about making other people look suspicious and trying to get people to back off of him, rather than going after people he finds suspicious.

Admittedly, Hapah was a bit suspicious, and is still above my average level of paranoia, but borno's actions both here and later made him look much scummier. Basically, unless someone outright scumclaims, I probably won't be shifting my vote, because he looks far scummier than anyone else in the game to me. Most people are a little bit scummy, but everything he has done since the end of RVS has looked like nervous scum trying to convince people to stop accusing them.

Jiokuy: Correct, there is no hammer in BM.