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Author Topic: Magma Smelters  (Read 2559 times)

The Unicorn Killer

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Magma Smelters
« on: April 25, 2012, 10:43:49 pm »

 I can't place a magma smelter near a channel of lava I dug out. If it means anything, the stone is smoothed out and its just a hole in the floor. HELP ME AND I'LL GIVE YOU A BADGER BRAIN AND A NICE CUP OF HUMAN BANDIT BLOOD FROM MY LAST ADVENTURE MODE ADVENTURE!
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Kilroy the Grand

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 10:45:04 pm »

Are you sure you didn't choose a normal smelter? Does it have 9 unobstructed squares?
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The Unicorn Killer

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2012, 10:46:29 pm »

Yeah, For some reason I can build the magma smelter with the edge touching the lava.
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Exponent

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2012, 10:53:31 pm »

Yeah, For some reason I can build the magma smelter with the edge touching the lava.

That's probably by design.  The logic being that the dwarf has to stand in the middle square, so it wouldn't make sense for the open magma to be right in the middle also.

From the wiki:  "To function, magma smelters must be built with at least one of the eight edge tiles positioned over an open space, with at least 4/7 magma on the next floor down."
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The Unicorn Killer

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2012, 10:54:56 pm »

Ahhh ok thanks
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Garath

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 02:53:12 am »

the top middle square is recommended as the impassable smelter part goes there, which prevents things like magma crabs disrupting work
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micha

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 09:34:34 am »

the top middle square is recommended as the impassable smelter part goes there, which prevents things like magma crabs disrupting work

Hi Garath, can anything pathing like a forgotten beast spawn down there?
 i have this habbit of filtering magma channels with fortifications before i use them; is that actually needed??
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Sphalerite

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 09:41:05 am »

Hi Garath, can anything pathing like a forgotten beast spawn down there?
 i have this habbit of filtering magma channels with fortifications before i use them; is that actually needed??
Forgotten beasts don't spawn in the magma, but magma crabs and other fun magma-dwelling creatures will appear on the edges of the magma sea and wander around, sometimes attacking your dwarves.

Fortifications are useless to protect against this.  When submerged in fluids, fortifications are treated like open space and do not block creatures from passing through.

I usually make a safe magma reservoir by digging out a chamber one Z-level above the magma, then pumping magma up through a floor grate with a magma-safe pump to fill it.
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Gobbopathe

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2012, 09:58:20 am »

Sorry, I just ask to be sure, I have always read that fortification is a good way to prevent such an event, and to
Quote
block creatures from passing through

I quote the wiki
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Fortifications are a special type of wall. They allow the passage of projectiles [in and out] and liquids, mist, steam and smoke, but not creatures

The exception would be vermin.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2012, 10:14:10 am »

Submerged fortifications don't block creatures at all. Even when not continuously submerged the creatures can be "squeezed" through fortifications with enough flow. For example when emptying a water reservoir with living goblins some of them can be taken with current and transported through fortifications.
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Sphalerite

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 10:22:46 am »

You don't even need flow.  Fortifications when completely submerged act like open space.  Even in completely still water, creatures will walk right through them as if they weren't there.  Wall grates and bars block intentional pathing, but creatures can be pushed through by flow.
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Starver

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 11:03:50 am »

For reference (although I've mentioned before in historic threads), I tend to find the layer on which I want to put my magma complex (usually level with the top of the available magma resource, but may be lower) in an area of rock without magma immediately on Z-1 below the planned workshop areas and on that Z-1 dig a magmaduct off towards where I can breach the magma.

This magmaduct usually snakes beneath the planned "hole in the ground " points for each workshop I plan (top middle for most of the magma workshops, middle left or middle right for the odd one out).  Access may be from the Z-1 level, but is usually by ramp from the very last workshop in the chain.  I'll dig the magma-tapping end until the point at which the next dug spot would breach magma (typically, at a diagonal in the magmapipe/sea wall, or would be a diagonal to make the tapping point).

Then my OCD takes over.  All I need to do is smooth that 'last tile', but I'll generally smooth the walls and floors the entire length.  And if any of the dug workshops got their channel into the area of the pipe before the pipe had already been dug that far, there'll be unnecessary ramps to remove.  Any ores or gems or flux-type stone in the walls I will dig out (to just one tile's thickness, because later I can go in from above if I want the rest) and replace those walls with blocks of the same material as the general non-precious walls in the general vicinity.  additional: I also dump everything from the magmaduct.  It looks cleaner to not have rocks (or molten rocks) floating around the duct, but also lets me prioritise the removal of precious materials that I want to recover, and make sure I haven't left anything.

Once I'm ready, though, I'll construct a suitable floodgate at the (current) end of the magmaduct, attach it to a lever and then pull it open while sending an engraver to fortify the remaining gap to the magma-source.  Because of the diagonal nature, I have found that the engraver has never had problems wandering out, but I always set the floodgate to shut as he wanders away, just in case he decides to go to sleep half-way to the exit.

By this time I may have built magma-workshops over every single pre-planned hole above the magmaduct except the final one (where the escape ramp is), although I've sometimes built 3x3 bridges (no levers) over those workshop plans that I haven't got anvils for/time to sort out.  Again, a bit OCD (1x1 over the hole would be enough, as would a floor if I wasn't bothered losing the material upon deconstruction, but bridges leave their materials off to one side when unbuilt), but it's how I work.

With nobody in the duct, and a small tongue of magma already in, I generally build over the escape square (I may also have used a point where I've removed a re-blocked gems or ore from a wall to get in sideways to remove the last ramp and smooth it down, before replacing said wall), I then open the floodgate again.  I let magma fill the place, and keep an eye on it to get it to 7/7ths all the way along, even if I have to wait a while for a '6/7ths' to chase up and down the magmaduct, before it finally bleeds out into the magma-source of whatever kind it was.  Then I shut the floodgate.  Now I have a 7/7ths-full magmaduct under my workshops that is effectively proof from all magma-swimmers.  The fortification has a floodgate on the inside, and even if something had the wherewithal to transit the floodgatefortifications and destroy the floodgate, the workshops are sat over the upper exits, capping that escape.  This may not be a situation that is safe forever, during the continual development of the game, but it's a whole lot of overkill over what's technically required right now.

Also, if I, for any reason, decide to drain the magma-source area, my magma-workshops still have their fixed 7/7ths reservoir of magma beneath them, unaffected until I deliberately let it drain out (or tap into it from another direction).

If I have reason to believe I'm going to be tapping the magma a number of times (and not make individual tappings for each and every magmaduct, by the same method as above) I may actually put a space between the aforementioned floodgate and second one that also seals off the workshops' magma-feed.  Once both are closed I can tap into the the intermediate square (without more than a single 7/7ths magma spreading into the new route, from either magmasource or in-use magmaduct) and arrange the affairs from that point... (Or I might pre-build an alcove or two at appropriate points between the two locks, and pre-set floodgates into these in preparation.)  Then I can make further spurs whose filling with magma (from outside, not by depleting the existing full duct) I can keep until when everyone is out of there, and seal again, ready for whatever other works I need.


It's all quite simple, honest. ;)

[minor edits: as marked, where significant]
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 04:33:54 pm by Starver »
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rtg593

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 11:58:52 am »

@starver

Nice. Pretty much what I do, as well, except I dig the tile, didn't ever think about engraving a fortification in it. Then build or cover the escape route once the miner is clear.

Nice idea on the floodgates, hadn't thought of that, either. I'll be modifying my tapping from now on :p
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GavJ

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 01:46:33 pm »

___ ... |____
     |_______  --> to forge areas, etc.

... = floor grate, which stops creatures and cannot have stuff pushed through it when submerged

Alternatively, use a floor HATCH or a floodgate or whatever and just have it close once you've tapped enough lava for your purposes.
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Urist McDwarfFortress

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Re: Magma Smelters
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012, 02:05:36 pm »

___ ... |____
     |_______  --> to forge areas, etc.

... = floor grate, which stops creatures and cannot have stuff pushed through it when submerged

Alternatively, use a floor HATCH or a floodgate or whatever and just have it close once you've tapped enough lava for your purposes.
This would be fine for keeping out magma crabs, etc, but a building destroyer (such as a magma man) would go right through that.
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