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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: April 07, 2013, 10:34:35 am

[Spinal_Taper]

Thomas, still holding a sod arm, steps into the hall and begins to walk towards the Rec Room. On his way, he sends a message to the doctor. If he runs into Milno, apologize for the abscence and listen to what he has to say.

I have the arm you need to create the hawk I was speaking about a few missions back. Whenever you're ready, I will give it to you.

"Hey. Your girlfriend is bothering people."

"Okay. Thanks for the heads up."
Find May.

[PyroDesu]

((To be entirely honest, in-character, I feel entirely justified in getting the tokens I get. Like I told Steve: Hazard pay. We could not reliably defend ourselves were we to be discovered (especially considering that Sods would likely try to mob us or keep us at range, negating the synthflesh melee advantage). That, and we performed a highly important, specialized task.

Out-of-character (only because I don't think it's been put out in-character the way things are going down budget-wise quite yet, technically this is in-character as well), though, I have to agree. I do hope that Steve pays the infiltration team separately, it doesn't seem fair to you guys with Steve imposing that we must be given at least 5 tokens each from the mission funds, alongside our performance bonuses. Seriously, the current budget layout screws quite a few people over (though some of them did fall out of the game).))

[NAV]

I am currently content with my one token. It's shiny.

((This new system doesn't seem very friendly to noobs compared to the old one.

((Just gonna say again how ridiculous not having the standard 5 tokens is. Seriously, us newbies who can't reliably do anything without permadeath are getting 1 or 2 tokens per mission, while vets are getting big bonuses on top of their head start. I feel like I'm falling further and further behind just because I didn't jump into the game the moment I joined Bay12.))

I am worried for Dubley's future in this economy.))

Examine token. Is it actually shiny?
Also go ask The Doctor if he can cure baldness
Also also, how many tokens was my Civic defender's longcoat?

[kisame12794]

"Suppose I should turn in my rented gear."

Hand over the remaining gauss clip, the Sibilus, and the longcoat.

((I used my last token from before the mission on the longcoat, so I should get that back right? And the token are large purple discs.))

[Caellath]

((EDIT: also I just had an idea. Would it be possible for STEPHEN HAWKING to train his "quantum dodge" ability? The basic idea I have for it is that it would let him use his intelligence bonus instead of agility for purposes of dodging things.))

((Someone asked for a similar thing and the answer was no because it is a way of "gaming" the system.))

"Hey. Your girlfriend is bothering people." Milno tells Thomas upon finding the alcoholic sniper, pointing the way he has come from.

With his message delivered, he decides to ask Steve a question. "Steve, are you supplying Joker team with tokens? The budget seems tight right now."

Get paid the same amount Simus is.

[Radio Controlled]

((This would be the place where I'd rant about Titans being big wastes of resources and inefficient and that big superweapons are ridiculous, while giving examples from history (mostly WWII Germany's attempts at those) and blablabla. Luckily, Fun > Realism in games.))

((The Soviets had some great giant superweapons, too.))

((And some hilarious low-tech ones too. Bombs strapped to dogs to kill tanks anyone? (yes, they actually tried this)

Do point out mistakes or if i forgot anything. If you think you deserve more tokens, do speak up, but know that this arrangement uses up all of the fund. So if you want more tokens, also point out who should get less, cause I can't conjure tokens out of thin air to add to the budget.

((so... Steve is paying bonuses and you're paying bonuses to the same people for the same reasons, is that correct? meaning some people (Astra for example, who stayed at her post and did her job as part of the defense team, leading to her having no adventures to show off.) get a total of zero tokens for the entire mission and others (simus) who were idle half the time and had their objectives handed to them on a multiple-choice platter get 6 or so? I object to that logic strongly.))
((I also don't understand the logic behind Grate being paid an extra token. his only noteworthy action was ignoring objectives at mission start (go down to the planet and pick up gerbil-bugs!) and getting himself killed unproductively (charge the amp specialist armed only with a laser rifle and no con skill at all!) when objectives changed to search and destroy. Feyri did more than that (corpse delivery service, cameraed the ships other than the sword and blackship so we'd know if they were broken into), and is getting zero tokens from anyone at all including steve. are we really paying people for getting themselves killed? Astra wasn't noteworthy for her successes, but she was reliable and actively defended the sword for an extended period, and she's on the zero token list.
It looks like you're paying people based on how noticeable their actions were, not on what their actions were or how trustworthy or reliable they were. are you really sure that's how you want to decide who gets the high-power equipment and who doesn't? whoever is the best at grandstanding gets the biggest guns?))
((sorry, but you knew this was coming, figured I'd get it out of the way now.))

((Thank you for the input. Honestly, I appreciate the help, this is kinda hard to do alone while trying to stay fair and balanced.
To be honest, I do not have the time right now to read the mission again and write down who did what exactly, so I went from memory to do this. If I had the time (aka no exams looming over the horizon) I'd be able to pour more time into this list, and make a more balanced list.
I did it like this: I put everybody in the 'standard' 1 token pay bracket, then moved up and down according to Steve's wishes (Milno team getting 5, Jim's team getting 1 extra, etc) and obvious people (like Thearpox not playing, so not getting anything).

However, I came short several tokens to do even this, so I had to bump down some people to 0 to even out the budget. I did this according to me remembering if they actually did anything, and to be honest, I didn't remember Astra doing anything really. And 'standing guard' comes down to 'not posting any action' in this situation, it seems. Same as for Feyri: braindead majority of mission.
I would give them more if I could, but even then, she and Astra would go into 'standard pay' group I think, just like Grate. No offense to either Tiruin or Wolfchild or GWG, by the way. It is entirely possible my memory is biased in this matter.

Yes, I know people who had the chance or capability to perform well are 'doubly rewarded', but due to tight budget I couldn't just give everybody same pay, not with the limitations Steve put there.
And really, you expect Miyamoto to give less tokens to people who were more useful? Grate's token is for helping out, or at least trying to, with the Amper battle.
I attempted to be fair with this, but as the situation stands the budget is really tight. Milno's team not getting accounted in the budget would help HUGELY in fixing this.
I tried to not judge people on their 'grandstanding' as you put it, but it's kinda hard to reward sentry duty if there's so little to go around, while other people did objectively more.

This is why I asked PW if i had to reward personal competence, since Steve is already doing that too. He said yes, so what am I supposed to do? Personally, I'd prefer if Steve gave out a standard pay (previous 5 or 3 or whatever), with 'competence bonus' coming from the token budget. Or Steve adding tokens to budget based on mission success and secondary objectives completed, then we give total pay from that. As it stands, competence gets indeed doubly rewarded, cause there isn't really a way for me to fix that with the way things are now.

Remember people, this is a still a transitional phase, the system might get changed a few more times before we find something that works. Just keep giving constructive criticism or alternatives, but don't just complain for complaining's sake, that helps nobody.

EDIT: You might have a stronger case against Jhoseph, though - he got paid two tokens total for purely metagame reasons, though the circumstances, depending on your point of view, may prove mitigating.

((Jhoseph?))

(Yeah, wolfchild disappeared. :\ Also, I have a different complaint. Radio keeps saying I took 15 for an Uncon Decomp. I'm pretty sure I took 10 for an Exo Decomp, because I had a few tokens of my own and traded in the second best decomp for the best one. That, and I don't need Uncon. I don't use Uncon. )

((Fixed, but the 15 token thing still stands, as pointed out already.))

((Just gonna say again how ridiculous not having the standard 5 tokens is. Seriously, us newbies who can't reliably do anything without permadeath are getting 1 or 2 tokens per mission, while vets are getting big bonuses on top of their head start. I feel like I'm falling further and further behind just because I didn't jump into the game the moment I joined Bay12.))

((Remember, this was a special mission, future missions will be more like the previous ones, with smaller teams and less veterans to hog all the glory with their Super Powered God suits. So just be patient, and don't drop the game now just because of this, it'll be 'fairer' (or at least, more newb-friendly) in the future.))

"Suppose I should turn in my rented gear."
Hand over the remaining gauss clip, the Sibilus, and the longcoat.
((I used my last token from before the mission on the longcoat, so I should get that back right? And the token are large purple discs.))

((Wait, so you mixed personal and mission funds, is that correct? Cause if yes, I dunno how we'll do this. Maybe I'll just give you an extra token, maybe you 'll get it back from the AM. We'll see what PW says.

While We're on this subject: I really think we should impose two reasons for the mission funds:
-all things bought with it HAVE to be returned at mission end, otherwise everybody can buy everything at half price. Doesn't seem very fair or balanced.
-no mixing of personal and mission tokens anymore, to not complicate things too much.

I asked PW before about this, but he hasn't answered yet. Still, I think it's best if we install these rules now, before it becomes even more of a flustercluck in the future. Opinions?))

[Pancaek]

((This would be the place where I'd rant about Titans being big wastes of resources and inefficient and that big superweapons are ridiculous, while giving examples from history (mostly WWII Germany's attempts at those) and blablabla. Luckily, Fun > Realism in games.))

((The Soviets had some great giant superweapons, too.))

((And some hilarious low-tech ones too. Bombs strapped to dogs to kill tanks anyone? (yes, they actually tried this)

((Didn't that fail because they trained the dogs by putting food under broken tanks, but when they released the dogs they did a 180° turn and ran under the Russian tanks because they were trained with those types? I seem to remember this from somewhere))

Pancaek goes to find Milno
"Hey chief, I'm here to return the tokens I borrowed."

Give Milno his two tokens back

[Lenglon]

explanation of mission budget.

((Fair enough, I have nitpicky tiny things I'd disagree with, but nothing major. and I agree with putting Lyra in the 0 token category considering the super-tight budget constraints and that I'm getting 2 from PW. I'll leave the rest to the people actually affected by it.

It really is kinda disappointing how hard it is for newer players to earn tokens under this system. (and I need to learn what the rules are for when I'm going to lose control of Lyra, becoming possessed for three turns because I attempted to use my nose was really annoying.)))

[kisame12794]

((Radio, if it makes it easier, dock me the two token, and I'll just keep the longcoat, or put the token I spent down under one of the gauss magazines.))

[Devastator]

((I did post actions, but they weren't in your thread..))

[Doomblade187]

((Another option would be for those veterans who wish for their standard pay to be spread out among the (active) newbies, and they just keep the bonus. I say this because some veterans are earning 4-5 token bonuses, in addition to 4 from the fund. Or, newbies could just ask veterans for tokens after the fact. I know some would be willing to donate.

On another note, the the beginning of the character isn't the most token-intensive part of building. It's the middle. You have to get the gear you want/need to to better in missions to really afford the endgame equipment. And that gear is much more expensive than starting gear. Unless you're me and just get a free laser rifle.))

[Tack]

Be Healed

[Xantalos]

If there's any more of the briefing, listen to it. If not, go retrieve that  mannequin from the AM if I can sell it back full price.

[BFEL]

((On another note, the the beginning of the character isn't the most token-intensive part of building. It's the middle. You have to get the gear you want/need to to better in missions to really afford the endgame equipment. And that gear is much more expensive than starting gear. Unless you're me and just get a free laser rifle.))

((Eh, I suppose that makes some sense, but the way I'm building STEPHEN HAWKING relies entirely on high-token items. I mean the eventual loadout plan is: Custom Battlesuit, Wrist-Mounted Monoatomic Shuriken Launchers, and a kinetic shunt. I'm not sure about the launchers, but the other stuff is about 20 each. So yeah, I guess I made a really stupid build for this game.

Speaking of which:

((EDIT: also I just had an idea. Would it be possible for STEPHEN HAWKING to train his "quantum dodge" ability? The basic idea I have for it is that it would let him use his intelligence bonus instead of agility for purposes of dodging things.))

((Someone asked for a similar thing and the answer was no because it is a way of "gaming" the system.))

Well while I haven't seen what exactly that person was asking, there are some special circumstances in this case:
1. STEPHEN HAWKING's quantum abilities are an already established fact. Just ask Grate.
2. I don't expect to just "get" this for no reason. I specifically said could he "train" it. Like how Renen trained with the Doctor and got bullet time. This would be something I fully expect to have to work for.
3. The suggested application applies only to dodge-related purposes. While certainly useful, that's still a pretty narrow area. Need to outrun a manip overload? That still uses agility, and thus probably fails.
4. Frankly...I'm not using that 20 intelligence for anything. It's there solely for roleplay purposes at this point, and until/unless I get a kinetic shunt, it will remain that way, making this less "gaming the system" and more "evening out my horrible build"

So in short, yeah I'm a munchkining, min/maxing fuck, but I will make DAMN sure that the crazy shit I come up with is grounded in RP and flows logically
in-game.))

[Xantalos]

((Which is an odd feature with me, as I could form myself into a 20-foot tall super muscular titan and due to my 0 Strength do no damage when I hit somebody ))