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Voting closed: April 07, 2013, 10:34:35 am


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Author Topic: Einsteinian Roulette On ship Thread: Maurice's One Night Stand  (Read 5978523 times)

Patrick Hunt

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16365 on: September 01, 2013, 04:02:37 pm »

Wow GWG, just wow way to miss understand everything I say.

Your entire counter argument starting multiple messages ago is based on arguing things I never actually said because you read my words and took the complete wrong meaning from them.
Well, explain why you said what you said. Why did you say that a 150+-token-per-person mission budget would be needed to overcome the equipment disparity between veterans and newbies?

Oh for the love of.
I never said I have a problem with not being as good as others at the start, I even specifically said multiple times in the last few days I'm happy to go on suicide missions that I know will likely kill me because I'm weak, hell I wanted to go with one of the team now even though my odds of survival on those jobs are probably less then 10% given what the jobs are. I have no issues with being weak in the game. Thats why I decided to ask the doc to turn me into a mutant freak and spent my tokens on a box that could give me a doomsday weapon, or some used toilet paper.
The whole point of my argument was that I wanted to know how team leaders will balance the payment after missions to factor in new players diminished odds of performing equally or better then veteran players. Thats all, not a complicated point at all so will people please stop reading things in what I say that are not there. If your not sure what I meant then please just ask me to clarify before you assume. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups.
Then it's been turned into a massive argument by people reading what I say and taking the complete wrong meaning away from it then trying to force what they think I meant down my throat so they can argue it despite the fact that it is not what I said or meant at all.
I give up I'm just going to stop giving opinions at all.
((Keep giving opinions, just stop giving the impression of the opposite opinion.))

Was some part of done with this argument please stop talking about it unclear? To clarify, I am no longer talking about this and will not begin talking about this again so please stop asking about it.
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Caine's law.
And so, here at the end of days, you are as you’ve always been. Willing to die. Not willing to quit.

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord but this morning. He's going to fucking well have to share.

Is she worth it, would you burn the city to save her? For her, I'd burn the world.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16366 on: September 01, 2013, 04:08:07 pm »

((Alright, I'll let you avoid actually explaining your statements. I've had enough discussions with people like that to know that pressing the point never helps.))
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[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Harry Baldman

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16367 on: September 01, 2013, 04:56:03 pm »

((And I am back! Boy, that sure is a lot of talking.))

Several minutes have passed since Stacy fell out of the stasis pod and fell to the ground motionlessly. Nobody has bothered to check if he's alright.

Fortunately, well on his fourth minute, he starts to cough intensely, clearing out some of that internal gunk and beginning to do a rather wonderful floor-dance. Well, he thinks so, anyway. Lots of hacking, coughing and not paying attention later, Stacy realizes that something unusual is happening here. He decides to ease in with the obvious question.

"So, Steve, what do I get for inadvertently causing genocide through sheer absentmindedness?"

Fortunately for his peace of mind, he has not, as mentioned, bothered to pay attention to anything that has happened up to this point.

Ask. Hope it's, like, a million tokens or something. Retroactively explain inactivity and receptiveness to being thoroughly looted.

EDIT: ((Forgot level-up. Mildly sleep-deprived.))

Despite the incredibly terrible death and destruction, Stacy feels that he has found out a whole lot about running away, even on just one foot. Stacy has also learned a lot about gun safety during the mission. Mostly that you don't crush them or point them at your foot, or your good buddy's, for that matter - truly, these are lessons to live by.

Level-up! +5 Dexterity, +3 Conventional Weapons.

Spoiler: Stacy Buttle (click to show/hide)

If not terribly dead or something by the end of turn, assess if I still have the nuke.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 05:10:05 pm by Harry Baldman »
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Parisbre56

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16368 on: September 01, 2013, 05:02:14 pm »

((Need to level up to get debriefed and get tokens.))

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16369 on: September 01, 2013, 05:09:36 pm »

((Wait, Stacy's a man?))
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[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Empiricist

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16370 on: September 01, 2013, 05:10:18 pm »

((...Yes...))
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Harry Baldman

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16371 on: September 01, 2013, 05:10:41 pm »

((Wait, Stacy's a man?))

((A jolly old fellow, in fact.))
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Pancaek

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16372 on: September 01, 2013, 05:11:01 pm »

((Wait, Stacy's a man?))
((I know right, I made the same mistake during the sharkmist mission. I adressed him as a woman for like 75% of the mission.))
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Parisbre56

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16373 on: September 01, 2013, 05:12:48 pm »

((Wait, Stacy's a man?))
((I know right, I made the same mistake during the sharkmist mission. I adressed him as a woman for like 75% of the mission.))
((Same here.))

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16374 on: September 01, 2013, 05:15:22 pm »

((...Yes...))
((He has a typically-feminine name and speaks in pink. It's an easy mistake to make.))
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Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Empiricist

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16375 on: September 01, 2013, 05:16:29 pm »

((Yeah I know, I suspect that may be intentional...))
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<Caellath>: Emp is the hero we don't need, deserve or want

Thearpox

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16376 on: September 01, 2013, 05:35:03 pm »

((I never had problems with Stacy as a man. However, I still picture Milno as a woman.))

((Also, regarding the token and new payment system. Glad you guys mostly figured it out. And Patrick was right about the things he said.

Mainly, that taking out the bottom of the barrel in the form of minimum payment puts rookies at much more of a disadvantage than the veterans. And that's true, and that's why even newbies who do horrible should still get tolerable payment.

And then there was a lot of trash with people misunderstanding each other and not supporting their arguments, and restating the same things, and all that. Oh well. It would be long to reply to all of that, and wouldn't be worth it.))
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Why are 100% of my posts in ER? I already have another account. Created this one specifically for playing.

Not online every Friday evening till Saturday night. If I am listed as online, I am still not online, as my computer has an annoying habit of waking up to the tiniest distraction and then going off to sleep again.


List of links to charts and graphs here. Work in progress. Check it out?

Tiruin

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16377 on: September 01, 2013, 05:45:35 pm »

((Stacy = female. Wherein nobody even asked to see if they were wrong or not, or even their name. Oh wow.))

Quote
However, I still picture Milno as a woman
((He's 17 and O_o Huh?))



(@Thear: The notion of seeing and giving team leaders http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=108083.msg4561044#msg4561044]this[/url] notion, which was the crux of your statement is flawed in itself. While PW did say the 5th statement in his quote here, do not assume that they are too jaded that people won't even get a fair chance. Or even if it was possible, the fact that 'Steve + Community' is still in play, only that the focus is more on the leaders on a superficial deal. Everyone sees the leaders to do something, because that's the responsibility of a leader--to organize--but that doesn't mean that the person has no control over it >_>

tl;dr: that statement, while understandable, fails to factor in the openness of how it works. Most things are based purely on the actions of players and results are given as stated. But generalizing something like that into a statistic doesn't work out correctly here.

@PH: This is too subjective or relative to hold firm ground in this case. While the concept of growing over time is obvious, the fact that mission token count or 'efficiency' rating is based on the actions. While the intent of the warning is understandable, you could obviously just say 'I'm dissatisfied' and then bring the point up with the leader in question. The second statement here is much more of a generalization than not, without considering how the intricate mechanics work [fairness and results on tokens (the usual "5")], as most things are based on what a person does, though the fact that you are on a mission gives the usual staple 5.

Though PW should have at least given that announcement as some newbies did not infer the common 5 tokens were given, because he didn't give that announcement.)
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Thearpox

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16378 on: September 01, 2013, 05:56:53 pm »

Quote
tl;dr: that statement, while understandable, fails to factor in the openness of how it works. Most things are based purely on the actions of players and results are given as stated. But generalizing something like that into a statistic doesn't work out correctly here.
((What? I think you misread me somewhere. What openness? What statistic? Assume that the are jaded?

This system as proposed would give team leaders the power to play favor politics. I think that's a bad idea, and since it can be easily avoided without major sacrifices to the game, I don't think it should be done.
Your view on the responsibilities of the leader, and whether I should be allowed to assume something, is frankly irrelevant.))

Quote
@PH: This is too subjective or relative to hold firm ground in this case. While the concept of growing over time is obvious, the fact that mission token count or 'efficiency' rating is based on the actions. While the intent of the warning is understandable, you could obviously just say 'I'm dissatisfied' and then bring the point up with the leader in question. The second statement here is much more of a generalization than not, without considering how the intricate mechanics work [fairness and results on tokens (the usual "5")], as most things are based on what a person does, though the fact that you are on a mission gives the usual staple 5.
((First of all, he said that he doesn't want to argue this anymore. He's been saying it in pretty much every post for a while now.

Secondly, it is a fact that veterans are better able to do things, and rookies are more likely to screw up. Yes, the entire thing is based on actions. But that doesn't change anything, you're basically requiring one person to continuously outthink the other. If I may bring something politically loaded in this, it's the same as the system in which a woman had to be twice as good as a man to get a job. Yes, it's possible. But the dice are loaded against you.

Either that, or I'm failing to understand you. Could be language problems, because I know there are some parts of what you said that I'm unsure about.))

((Stacy = female. Wherein nobody even asked to see if they were wrong or not, or even their name. Oh wow.))

Quote
However, I still picture Milno as a woman
((He's 17 and O_o Huh?))
((Stacy Butter is male. That's a fact. Also, you see something wrong with my vision of Milno?))
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 05:59:42 pm by Thearpox »
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Why are 100% of my posts in ER? I already have another account. Created this one specifically for playing.

Not online every Friday evening till Saturday night. If I am listed as online, I am still not online, as my computer has an annoying habit of waking up to the tiniest distraction and then going off to sleep again.


List of links to charts and graphs here. Work in progress. Check it out?

Tiruin

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: The Gravy of Murder
« Reply #16379 on: September 01, 2013, 06:14:45 pm »

Quote
tl;dr: that statement, while understandable, fails to factor in the openness of how it works. Most things are based purely on the actions of players and results are given as stated. But generalizing something like that into a statistic doesn't work out correctly here.
((What? I think you misread me somewhere. What openness? What statistic? Assume that the are jaded?

This system as proposed would give team leaders the power to play favor politics.
I think that's a bad idea, and since it can be easily avoided without major sacrifices to the game, I don't think it should be done.
Your view on the responsibilities of the leader, and whether I should be allowed to assume something, is frankly irrelevant.))
-snip-
((Stacy = female. Wherein nobody even asked to see if they were wrong or not, or even their name. Oh wow.))

Quote
However, I still picture Milno as a woman
((He's 17 and O_o Huh?))
((Stacy Butter is male. That's a fact. Also, you see something wrong with my vision of Milno?))
((Yes, while delegating something to a non-GM authority does have that probability, however on the implication of subtle shady dealings and such, it is pretty obvious if they do that. Everything is handled by the GM though, and I'm seeing that as a case of wording--basically a 'Steve +Community' deal only that the first step in handling anything is shown to be given to leaders first instead of that mention. I got what you're saying, silly :P it's just that I'm poking at how that could be misrepresented. It seemed like you were leaning on bias rather than discussing it, then.

Quote
Secondly, it is a fact that veterans are better able to do things, and rookies are more likely to screw up. Yes, the entire thing is based on actions. But that doesn't change anything, you're basically requiring one person to continuously outthink the other. If I may bring something politically loaded in this, it's the same as the system in which a woman had to be twice as good as a man to get a job. Yes, it's possible. But the dice are loaded against you.
Because of the level system, perhaps. However, the 'screw up' part is relative [I can't say we're all equal, but being 'more likely' in that wording goes along it being a higher chance on a larger gap rather than a small difference. It's generalizing in the way that things need to be 'continuous', which isn't how it works given the token system {granted for certain actions at the right time}]. Overshooting due to being too good at something also happens, and that was what others were referring to in the misunderstood posts, but all of it could be resolved if we focused on the big deal (also that it would also be unfair to veterans to see newbies rise too fast in the ranks given said argument compared to what they did--while this is subject to discussion, it's something we both get here). The politically loaded part is subjective in this case but yes, that happens--it doesn't hold value here though. [Must be a culture thing, we've less occurrences of that here in the Philippines but I get the point there, though it deviates to sexism and its moral/emotional implications, which seems more like a strawman to the case in mention].

Also not language problems. I'm pulling up statements which I guessed connected to his argument.

..Also the later 'huh' was on how you saw Milno--you never said how and I wonder how you wonder that. And yes, Stacy is male.))
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