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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: April 07, 2013, 10:34:35 am

[piecewise]

Think something more this size.


Thing isn't gonna fit on your shoulder very well unless you're a battle suit. Or you don't like turning in hallways.

[SeriousConcentrate]

(Hmm. How would you do amps, synthbodies, and other 'permanent' upgrades on this auction system?)

[Zako]

Piecewise, can you not forget to do my turn this time?

((LEVEL UP!: +8 to Will, +2 to Endurance, +2 to Con, +2 to Intuition, +1 Handiwork, +1 Uncon.

Also, I've got a rocket rifle and spare clip for it. How much ammo does it have left loaded?))

"Shit just keeps happening to me, doesn't it Steve? How have things been since I've been gone?"

Talk to Steve, then head to the armoury after getting my tokens!

It got lost in the ocean of posts... My god, this fills up FAST when you people are in the mood to post!

[Empiricist]

((In that case, what if people used the funds to create a non-standard weapon? Do they just return the weapon afterwards? Would that mean that prototypes could be used by an entire squad if it seems useful for the job at hand?))

[Sean Mirrsen]

Think something more this size.


Thing isn't gonna fit on your shoulder very well unless you're a battle suit. Or you don't like turning in hallways.

((Ha, yeah, that's not going to fit. Custom weapons it is then. Though at least basing on a cutting laser might be worth looking into.

Or phased arrays...))

[Sean Mirrsen]

((In that case, what if people used the funds to create a non-standard weapon? Do they just return the weapon afterwards? Would that mean that prototypes could be used by an entire squad if it seems useful for the job at hand?))

(Hmm. How would you do amps, synthbodies, and other 'permanent' upgrades on this auction system?)

((I'm guessing that non-refundable prototypes and permanent upgrades made on the budget, remain permanent - which cuts into the payoff for the rest of the team, so the decision must be made with all the responsibility that entails.))

[piecewise]

Amps and such aren't permanent, so they can be bought with the system, implanted and then removed afterwards. However, gene therapies and the like CANNOT be done with the mission budget.

Custom objects will more then likely just use your own personal money. You're making it, you're paying for it. Alternatively, I guess they could rent it like anything else and just return it at the end. Basically, if you don't want to have to give it up, you're paying for it yourself.

That, or I suppose you could just not return it and take a hit on your income, since I'm guessing the other people in the mission aren't gonna wanna split a lowered total pay just because some tinker addict decided he had to keep his creation.

[Toaster]

That last seems sensible- the whole "You can keep it, but it's coming out of your pay" bit.  And perhaps if you don't make enough (or kill half the civilian population of the planet with it) you get a token debt to be repaid later.

[Sean Mirrsen]

((I'm guessing that if it's decided that a permanent upgrade is absolutely necessary for the mission to succeed, people will find a way to work around the budget. But on the overall, I think it's a good system. It both allows new people to be useful on missions, and introduces an element of strategic decision-making. But don't make us drown in tokens, PW. The budget should still be such that if the mission completes successfully, the average payout is still around 5 token per person, with bonuses for objectives and/or competence.

Hm. Bonuses for surviving, bringing back equipment, completing objectives, and bringing back artifacts, plus penalties for destruction and murder of civilians and civilian property.

Does it sound like XCOM to anyone else?
The first one, specifically. UFO Defense.

We even have flying armor...))

[Kriellya]

(( Sean brings up my main question. Is the budget in addition to the 5-token + Steve bonus, creating a player-driven system for both obtaining enough equipment to complete a mission and rewarding the party afterward for a job well done? Or is it replacing the 5-token minimum all together? Or the Steve bonus, I suppose.

Cause if we're removing the 5-token 'salary', then I agree with Sean, the 'budget' should be at least 5 per person. Otherwise, it would depend on the mission. Heck, maybe for some missions you'd want to not set a budget at all, but instead provide something specialized and expensive to get the job done under the same system. Return it successfully, and the party gets resale value to split as a bonus.

Either way, I like the idea.))

It got lost in the ocean of posts... My god, this fills up FAST when you people are in the mood to post!

(( I think it's more that we finally have more than 5 active people in the main thread, for the first time in several months XD
I mean, we had more than 20 people engaged in missions, and therefore not actively posting in this thread. Now everyone is in this thread. ))

[Parisbre56]

((It's almost a Known Space-universe variable sword, with a disemboweled drone instead of a tip to let you know where the end of the blade is, no stasis field to make it actually swordlike, and it vibrates to do damage instead of simply being monoatomic.))

Spoiler: I didn't intend for this to become so long when I started writing it. (click to show/hide)

((I see the resemblence, but it's not actually a sword, since the drone's engines aren't constantly on, because it's meant to be more of a thrown weapon with the drone as a way to ensure the wire gets taut.

The way I imagine it, the user swings the thing around in circles when targets are in short or melee range. The monowhip gets wound around a bodypart, the user activates sticky mode and then pulls the whip thereby cutting that bodypart (if the drone has stuck on the cut bodypart the user can then retrieve it and beat its owner to death with it). In medium range the user throws the drone towards the enemy like this and then activates one of the functions as necessary in order to cut the enemy (maybe he gives it a small boost with the joystick to reach further, maybe he throws it over the enemy, activates the return to user function while bringing the monowhip down to the ground, thereby cutting the enemy in half). Then there's the trap and sticky modes, perfect to cover your  retreat if you can spare the tokens, ambush a small number of enemies or act as area denial by cutting off a chokepoint. Then there's the team use, where two highly mobile or heavily armored teammates each stick an end of the monowhip on them and charge towards the enemy guns blazing (or even better stealthily and completely unnoticed), cutting anything between them. And depending on how much money you're willing to spend, you can also modify it to act as a grappling hook by enhancing the generator and motor or make it a building destroyer by making the monofilament even longer. Or if monofilaments aren't enough for you you can add kinetic amps on the drone and make it into a monowhip/rocket powered flail hybrid.

The main reason I designed this is to make a reusable unconventional short/medium ranged weapon, something that is a bit weaker than a manipulator but still powerful enough to take down something huge or shielded against manipulators and amps (giving us an option besides nuking it or manipulator nuking it), reusable and most importantly able to be used even if the physimancer has exhausted his brain with previous actions. It can also be used as an auxiliary weapon by remote controlling the drone with the joystick instead of throwing it and using the simple commands available, although the engines will run out very quickly with constant use. And finally, an imaginative user can find even more uses for it.

Assuming it works.))

((The budget system sounds very good. Kinda like what we have right now, only we get more money that get spent more reasonably.))

((Heck, maybe for some missions you'd want to not set a budget at all, but instead provide something specialized and expensive to get the job done under the same system. Return it successfully, and the party gets resale value to split as a bonus.))

((">Here's a fusion instigator. Use it wisely."))

[Thearpox]

So it's sunday, so there's no post today, but I did want to weigh in on something:

Tokens and buying things.

In universe there was a reason for them to exist before and there still is sort of a reason for them to exist now. Supplies are still obviously limited by what can be aboard the ship and if we let people run wild all they would do is take all the super weapons and end up expending all our nukes against unarmed civilians  and having nothing left for when we need them.

However the rather cutthroat, merc idea of pay doesn't really fit in the idea of a army. So the idea is this:

Each mission has a budget. This budget can be used to "rent" equipment for the team for that particular mission. Any equipment rented like this is returned to the armory at the end of the mission. Any tokens left over from said budget, or regained when returning equipment are divided up among the people on the mission, either by Jim or Miyamoto or by the mission's leader.  This way tokens stay around for buying personal things, but missions are also backed financially, there's still a limit on what can be used, and there's an incentive to complete missions with less equipment and to make sure that equipment isn't destroyed or damaged.

Opinions?

((The more complicated the system is=more ways to break it.
Another saying goes as: If it's not broken, don't fix it.

However, apart from that, sounds like a good idea. However, I would like to know what the budgets would be.

And I'm wary of relying too much on mission leaders. I think we can all agree that Miyamoto and Jim are good guys, but something changes, or you get someone who's not so good, and it all goes to magma traps. And even with them, you begin introducing even more favor politics, and while that's interesting, I wouldn't that to play an even bigger part of the game. So I think it should be less mission leaders and more of a Steve + Community decide.

And Sean is right, swimming in tokens is bad. Except that the average is not 5, five is the minimum. The average something like 6.5-7.5 tokens.))

[Caellath]

((I liked the idea for the budget system.))

[Patrick Hunt]

The idea itself is good I think, the only problem I have is letting team leaders give out the payment at the end. It might work well if team leaders are fair. If they aren't then they and there friends will get most of the tokens and the rest get shafted.

Thats something that should stay with Steve to decide so team leaders can't be bribed, coerced or just flat out decide to abuse the power.

[Sean Mirrsen]

So it's sunday, so there's no post today, but I did want to weigh in on something:

Tokens and buying things.

In universe there was a reason for them to exist before and there still is sort of a reason for them to exist now. Supplies are still obviously limited by what can be aboard the ship and if we let people run wild all they would do is take all the super weapons and end up expending all our nukes against unarmed civilians  and having nothing left for when we need them.

However the rather cutthroat, merc idea of pay doesn't really fit in the idea of a army. So the idea is this:

Each mission has a budget. This budget can be used to "rent" equipment for the team for that particular mission. Any equipment rented like this is returned to the armory at the end of the mission. Any tokens left over from said budget, or regained when returning equipment are divided up among the people on the mission, either by Jim or Miyamoto or by the mission's leader.  This way tokens stay around for buying personal things, but missions are also backed financially, there's still a limit on what can be used, and there's an incentive to complete missions with less equipment and to make sure that equipment isn't destroyed or damaged.

Opinions?

((The more complicated the system is=more ways to break it.
Another saying goes as: If it's not broken, don't fix it.

However, apart from that, sounds like a good idea. However, I would like to know what the budgets would be.

And I'm wary of relying too much on mission leaders. I think we can all agree that Miyamoto and Jim are good guys, but something changes, or you get someone who's not so good, and it all goes to magma traps. And even with them, you begin introducing even more favor politics, and while that's interesting, I wouldn't that to play an even bigger part of the game. So I think it should be less mission leaders and more of a Steve + Community decide.

And Sean is right, swimming in tokens is bad. Except that the average is not 5, five is the minimum. The average something like 6.5-7.5 tokens.))

((Yeah, Steve being the deciding factor in who gets paid how much gets my vote. I mean, that's one part of the old system that's definitely not broken, and Steve is still both the one providing the mission, and the one providing the budget.

In regards to minimum payout, I meant that the "standard" payout should be around 5 token. I'm assuming that bonuses for retrieved artifacts and completed secondary objectives won't come from the actual mission budget, because if you factor those in it will be too easy to come into the mission overprepared.

edit: And when it comes down to it, it's really not complicating anything. It's exactly like before, except when before people would buy equipment with their own money, get paid after the mission, and sell back their equipment to have enough money to buy new equipment, now they are given the money they need to buy new equipment from the get-go, and selling back the surviving equipment they don't need is included in debriefing.))