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Voting closed: April 07, 2013, 10:34:35 am

[TCM]

((From what I've noticed, ER runs more on Relative Logic than Game Logic. Case in point being the Dam and Tropical Kingdom missions. If Game Logic were applicable, those missions would have lasted a lot longer than they did. So there must be some sort of in-game reason for tokens to still exist.))

((No, it doesn't work like that. Those things are not tied together, and you're mixing up railroading and game balance. And it wasn't Tropical, it was a Desert.))

((They totally are. E.R. takes place in it's own universe that doesn't rely on the stereotypes of roleplaying. Name One RPG that allows for entire Dungeon Bypasses and still retains a strict sense of Game Balance.
We got done with railroads once we passed the stratosphere baby.

Also, your second point is incorrect.

((Hey Piecewise, what's the climate of this place? I was thinking Desert, but maybe not.))

It's hot and humid. Sort of tropical with tall grass fields around here.

Deserts are definitely not humid with growing tall grass. Nailed it.))

[Kriellya]

((From what I've noticed, ER runs more on Relative Logic than Game Logic. Case in point being the Dam and Tropical Kingdom missions. If Game Logic were applicable, those missions would have lasted a lot longer than they did. So there must be some sort of in-game reason for tokens to still exist.))

(( I think the original reason that was given at some point, which was 'that the tokens are less currency and more a measure of how much we trust you with the power to destroy planets', still applies quite well.
Though perhaps it does mean that the system should become more generous to people like Feyri. They lose some total 'trust', because they did die and lose equipment after all, but they don't lose trust equivalent to the equipment they lost, but some amount less than that. So, if I go on a mission with 10 tokens of equipment and come back with 5 tokens worth. Depending on how I lost it, I might still be reasonably trusted, and get given 3 tokens corresponding to how much I'm 'trusted' not to lose that equipment again.))

[Thearpox]

((From what I've noticed, ER runs more on Relative Logic than Game Logic. Case in point being the Dam and Tropical Kingdom missions. If Game Logic were applicable, those missions would have lasted a lot longer than they did. So there must be some sort of in-game reason for tokens to still exist.))

((No, it doesn't work like that. Those things are not tied together, and you're mixing up railroading and game balance. And it wasn't Tropical, it was a Desert.))

((They totally are. E.R. takes place in it's own universe that doesn't rely on the stereotypes of roleplaying. Name One RPG that allows for entire Dungeon Bypasses and still retains a strict sense of Game Balance.
We got done with railroads once we passed the stratosphere baby.

Also, your second point is incorrect.

((Any RPG with a DM that allows it. The Tomb of Horrors was once breached by a team of miners taking several weeks to make a tunnel.

And just because this game is broken in regards to balance, because let's face it, it's not balanced at all, doesn't mean that the DM has to make away with all game logic.))

((From what I've noticed, ER runs more on Relative Logic than Game Logic. Case in point being the Dam and Tropical Kingdom missions. If Game Logic were applicable, those missions would have lasted a lot longer than they did. So there must be some sort of in-game reason for tokens to still exist.))

(( I think the original reason that was given at some point, which was 'that the tokens are less currency and more a measure of how much we trust you with the power to destroy planets', still applies quite well.
Though perhaps it does mean that the system should become more generous to people like Feyri. They lose some total 'trust', because they did die and lose equipment after all, but they don't lose trust equivalent to the equipment they lost, but some amount less than that. So, if I go on a mission with 10 tokens of equipment and come back with 5 tokens worth. Depending on how I lost it, I might still be reasonably trusted, and get given 3 tokens corresponding to how much I'm 'trusted' not to lose that equipment again.))

((The trust thing is a way to explain in-game why we have that rule. But let's face it, it doesn't change the fact that it is still game logic.

A lot of things don't make sense when looked at closely. For example, running team exercises in ER and giving a basic training course before missions would allow for much better coordination and survival rates. The thing with people buying an amp before a single mission doesn't really make sense. And there are a lot of ways better than surviving missions and slowly gaining tokens to show that you deserve trust.

But we accept all of these because they make sense mechanically and make the game more fun. If we were Steve and had to strategize and actually organize everything, the rules would be different. For example, instead of letting people buy equipment, they would be given equipment according to the overminds wishes. And it would work better strategically. But that would be a different game (XCom) and would have it's own set of things that don't make sense.))

[Remalle]

"Flying the shuttle and replacing limbs is sleeping, now?"
Head to the armoury, get my gear repaired/refilled/restored.  Count tokens after that.  Then ask the armoury master:
"Excuse me, I have a couple of questions.  First, could you remind me of the prices for medical decompensators?  Second, I had an idea while I was on the AP mission, and I was wondering whether it would be feasible to execute.  You see, I have regenerative capabilities, but there's a major problem: regenerating an injury to the brain wipes it.  Is it possible to create a neural backup, so as to restore my personality if I ever lose my head?"

Pretty sure you missed this.  School, thread is too busy, might be wrong.

[Spinal_Taper]

Thomas took a deep breath, then exhaled deeply, running his hands through his hair. He hadn't moved from his position sitting in his pod yet, and he hadn't since the rebellion plan had been broken to the ship as a whole. For a few minutes after the others had left the room, he remained in his seat, his eyes pointed foward, but with no real direction at all. Finally, he stood up, with hawklike eyes, sharp, focused, but emotionless, and got dressed in the standard jumpsuit, then headed for the rec room, checking if the cards were still there.

[Sean Mirrsen]

((

Spoiler: Artist's rendition of the hypothetical Modular Combat Suit, Heavy Weapons configuration. (click to show/hide)

This one actually seems to be well-proportioned. Although I have a sneaking suspicion I won't be able to mount Cutting Lasers into those shoulder-pods. But who knows? ))

[Unholy_Pariah]

((nice picture, i was actually considering making those armature based shoulder pods for my prosthesis but i decided that a neck mount would be easier, cheaper and have a greater targeting range... any chance i could convince you to draw a 4 armed version where the head is another gun encased in a sand worm skull? im curious as to what it would look like.

also i believe you could get the cutting lasers into the shoulder pods, you don't need all the extra stuff like stocks and hand grips so it should end up being rather compact, relatively speaking.))

[Devastator]

((Is the cheap Mk. II still up for grabs?))

To Jim:  How many until you went full-robot?

[TCM]

((From what I've noticed, ER runs more on Relative Logic than Game Logic. Case in point being the Dam and Tropical Kingdom missions. If Game Logic were applicable, those missions would have lasted a lot longer than they did. So there must be some sort of in-game reason for tokens to still exist.))

(( I think the original reason that was given at some point, which was 'that the tokens are less currency and more a measure of how much we trust you with the power to destroy planets', still applies quite well.
Though perhaps it does mean that the system should become more generous to people like Feyri. They lose some total 'trust', because they did die and lose equipment after all, but they don't lose trust equivalent to the equipment they lost, but some amount less than that. So, if I go on a mission with 10 tokens of equipment and come back with 5 tokens worth. Depending on how I lost it, I might still be reasonably trusted, and get given 3 tokens corresponding to how much I'm 'trusted' not to lose that equipment again.))

((Alright, good nuff'.))

[Pancaek]

((Is the cheap Mk. II still up for grabs?))

To Jim:  How many until you went full-robot?

((Yup, still not sold. Though I believe Kriellya expressed some interest in it as well))

[piecewise]

So it's sunday, so there's no post today, but I did want to weigh in on something:

Tokens and buying things.

In universe there was a reason for them to exist before and there still is sort of a reason for them to exist now. Supplies are still obviously limited by what can be aboard the ship and if we let people run wild all they would do is take all the super weapons and end up expending all our nukes against unarmed civilians  and having nothing left for when we need them.

However the rather cutthroat, merc idea of pay doesn't really fit in the idea of a army. So the idea is this:

Each mission has a budget. This budget can be used to "rent" equipment for the team for that particular mission. Any equipment rented like this is returned to the armory at the end of the mission. Any tokens left over from said budget, or regained when returning equipment are divided up among the people on the mission, either by Jim or Miyamoto or by the mission's leader.  This way tokens stay around for buying personal things, but missions are also backed financially, there's still a limit on what can be used, and there's an incentive to complete missions with less equipment and to make sure that equipment isn't destroyed or damaged.

Opinions?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Sensible.

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Mission budgets sounds reasonable. I'd recommend imposing some sort of a per-person limit for spending, so that unless decided by the whole team, one person does not go out in a Battlesuit, leaving the rest with hand lasers. Because the only other limiting mechanism would be the threat of the other team members' physical 'interference'.))

[piecewise]

((Mission budgets sounds reasonable. I'd recommend imposing some sort of a per-person limit for spending, so that unless decided by the whole team, one person does not go out in a Battlesuit, leaving the rest with hand lasers. Because the only other limiting mechanism would be the threat of the other team members' physical 'interference'.))

The idea is that the mission leader (either jim or miyamoto or someone sensible they choose) will control budget with input from everyone on the team, and Steve will act as a final regulator if it seems like someone is unfairly hogging tokens without the consent of others.

[Sean Mirrsen]

((Mission budgets sounds reasonable. I'd recommend imposing some sort of a per-person limit for spending, so that unless decided by the whole team, one person does not go out in a Battlesuit, leaving the rest with hand lasers. Because the only other limiting mechanism would be the threat of the other team members' physical 'interference'.))

The idea is that the mission leader (either jim or miyamoto or someone sensible they choose) will control budget with input from everyone on the team, and Steve will act as a final regulator if it seems like someone is unfairly hogging tokens without the consent of others.

((Hm, yeah, that sounds good.

edit: Heh, suddenly got a nice mental image of several teams making bids on the mission, a-la Clans.
-"We shall do this mission with a budget of 20 token."
-"And we bid that we'll do it with 15 token."
-"Well bargained and done."


Coincidentally, since you're here anyway (), would you say the Cutting Laser would fit on a shoulder like in that suit I drew? Nevermind the difficulty looking around with two of them up. And what about, say, a Heavy Gauss or a Plasma Projector?))