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Author Topic: Einsteinian Roulette On ship Thread: Maurice's One Night Stand  (Read 5920958 times)

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11850 on: February 11, 2013, 02:45:15 am »

((No problem, PW. ^_^ Keep that head of yours rested well! The tinker plague is only going to get worse from here (esp. when the 20-or-so edit: at this rate, about 10 to 15 survivors from the mission get back), so you'll need it. :P

I think I'll queue up some simple tests in the meantime, so that the delay is somewhat accounted for. ;) Original action post will be edited.

edit: since I'm deathly bored at the moment, here's a concept for the (future) final iteration of the Gungnir Electrolaser Rifle, the one that'd use a generator and capacitor banks.

I can do such sketches of just about anything if you want, PW. I might do characters if anybody wants, too, just be aware I am terrible at drawing faces. -_-))
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 04:50:01 am by Sean Mirrsen »
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

PyroDesu

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11851 on: February 11, 2013, 06:29:39 am »

((
((Also event though that radiation sounds extremely bad the suits are highly resistant to radiation although keeping the radiation below the max tolerance for the suits would be good although I cant wait to field test as the theroised effects
sounded pretty brutal(nigh instantaneous superheating and massive kinetic energy transfer. ) Also here is the article pyro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam_weapon))

((Interesting, but I'm still not entirely sure about a container of neutral gas eliminating the charge on a beam of protons (cations?) that is moving at a very high c-frac. Besides, even if they strip the charge, it has to go somewhere, so the neutral gas won't be neutral for long. And you also have a similar issue to that of Ion engines. These two passages will show you, but when they speak of thrust, that's effectively your beam's power:

Quote from: Dr. John Schilling
And it suffers from the same critical thrust-limiting problem as any other ion engine: since you are accelerating ions, the acceleration region is chock full of ions. Which means that it has a net space charge which repels any additional ions trying to get in until the ones already under acceleration manage to get out, thus choking the propellant flow through the thruster.

The upper limit on thrust is proportional to the cross-sectional area of the acceleration region and the square of the voltage gradient across the acceleration region, and even the most optimistic plausible values (i.e. voltage gradients just shy of causing vacuum arcs across the grids) do not allow for anything remotely resembling high thrust.

Quote from: Erik Max Francis
You can only increase particle energy so much; you then start to get vacuum arcing across the acceleration chamber due to the enormous potential difference involved. So you can't keep pumping up the voltage indefinitely.

To get higher thrust, you need to throw more particles into the mix. The more you do this, the more it will reduce the energy delivered to each particle.

It is a physical limit. Ion drives cannot have high thrusts.

Also, that radiation is, to put it in the outdated units everyone knows, 50000 rems. That's likely to be well above what the suits can protect us from.))
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piecewise

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11852 on: February 11, 2013, 02:21:30 pm »

((So it's mostly just a "lower tech level" than the saber then? A big conventional battery and a simple tesla projector instead of the whatever compact tech the saber uses?))

"Hm. This might be a tricky one."

Explode the Tesla Arc, focusing on the tesla projector. Examine the design of the projector and attempt to construct an insulated tesla coil on the forearm of the "gauntlet", and a miniaturized version of the projector head attached to the back of the hand. Split the battery off and make it a backpack version, connected with a wire running along the arm and down to the battery, affixed to the arm with straps. Make sure to insulate the gauntlet as thoroughly as possible to minimize the risk of the arc attracting to it.

((the whole design is something like this, I guess, but perhaps with more housing for the coil. I'm actually a little confused as to how doesn't the arc normally arc back to the user if it's just a tesla coil... chalk that up to charge differential, I guess...... still not sure. :P

edit: also, ouch. I know the mission people think they're on a timer, but they really should have figured out to avoid all contact with the darn stuff by now. I mean, they saw the sharkmist and ran away from it, now they see a whole cavern made out of something like it and they plunge right in... how is anything that seems to devour stuff on a molecular level seem like a good idea to touch is beyond me. :) ))

edit2: In the meantime, Anton queues up some performance tests using Duel, studying the results of different encounters with one side of the conflict equipped with electrolasers.

  • Standard battle encounter - have the computer find instances of in-atmosphere battle encounters between UWM and other armed forces. Equip the losing side of the conflict with electrolaser rifles instead of any standard equivalent tech and compare outcomes.
  • Vacuum battle encounter - as above, but in vacuum. See if just having a melee energy weapon coupled with the primary firearm confers any benefits outside of the electrolaser effects.
  • Nonlethal encounter - have the computer find instances of armed forces being required to nonlethally subdue a group of (armed) individuals, possibly with civilians as obstacles. Compare results between using minimum-power electrolasers as ranged tazers, and whichever method is standard procedure for such occasions.

Finally, have the computer (or Steve) estimate the cost-effectiveness of using electrolaser weaponry based on the results of the tests.

((Basically, Anton wants to acquire as much test data as possible to have Electrolasers (or Arc Rifles, if you want) added as standard gear in the Armory and elsewhere. The Gungnir is going to be expensive-ish at 8 token (Rifle 2, Saber 5, Upgrades 1), so he wants confirmation that it's a useful weapon for its cost before he pursues building it. The error of diving into prototype building before extensive research has taught him well.))

(pretty much. Tesla sabres were tech for higher level officers. Tesla arcs were single use weapons they strapped to strong looking soldiers and sent them out to the front lines to use up as much as they could before dying.)

Now the big problem with this tesla arc thing is that you are going to electrocute yourself. Or someone near you. I guarantee it; as it is that thing is gonna throw an arc either into your fingers or your chest or something. However, one thing does come to mind that might fix that. You know how stun guns have two metal prongs between which the electricity arcs? You could do something like that, arcing it in front of the laser.

As per these tests:

Standard: Well, losing side does more damage, thats for sure. But remember that the UWM has never really had to fight it's equal or even close to it in terms of military power, at least since the Altered wars. So your gun really isn't gonna turn the tide of the battle, but it might make it harder for them.

Vacuum: Don't know because didn't someone say that this wouldn't work in vacuum and someone said it would work really well in vacuum?

Nonlethal: Nonlethal? Whats that?

Cost effectiveness: Would probably be more cost effective if you use some sort of custom made electric arc.Since tesla sabres are kinda expensive.

scream "i know your there you rat bastard" over the speakers at maximum comprehensible volume, wait for it to rysh me then fire a single second burst frim my flamer to stop it charging then rocket hover around it then rocket boost tackle it off the roof towards the fuel station
You stay on the roof, spinning around to try and keep an eye on everything. Nothing happens. No one charges you, no sub-human monster lopes in from the shadows intent on spilling your blood. It's just quiet. You know he's somewhere nearby but it seems he's smart enough not to just bum rush you in the open.

"Hm, thanks. Would you be ok to send me a message if you happen to remember?"

Ask.
"Yeah sure."

Exit VR then go watch competitive knife throwing.

To Steve: "Where's Ivan?"


You get out of the VR machine and walk over to the couch.

"Hey steve, where's Ivan?"

>Look up.


That would be most kind of you. I was not exactly aiming for becoming a mind Juggernaut, after all, more like having a slightly better chance of resisting that sort of influence.
Politely accept the Armory Master's offer.

((@MutzelRX Remember, if you cannot see him, he cannot see you. Also, things don't exist while they aren't observed by you. Just keep watching TV, nothing wrong can happen to you as long as your attention is completely focused on it. ))

"First thing, don't move. You can't walk off a cliff if you don't move. Second, bite your tongue or lip or something and focus on the pain. sometimes the disconnect between whats false and whats real will be enough to snap you  out of it. Third, if you can warn your teammates, warn your teammates. And last, try to avoid mind fuck as best you can; watch your teammates, don't touch anything thats glowing or fractal or whispering alien limericks to you."

"Steve? Could I order a custom automanipulator?"
Use the wierdvision to peer inside the gravity manipulator. Then spawn a gauss rifle, and a standard gauss round. Add three blades to the slug like an expanding broadhead. Spawn a human dummy, and shoot him with the modified slug. Observe effects.

((Eh. It was more a test for the limitations of a automanip, than anything else.))

Well, you can't look into the manipulators using weird vision on the VR machine. If you try all that happens is you see the innards of the VR goggles.

And that dummy's head is going away regardless of blades or no blades on a gauss round.

>Depends on what you want it to do.


"OH CRAP! He's behind me. He must be behind me. Where else would he be!? If I don't get away from him he'll kill me.
If I try to move he'll probably kill me as well. Still, I have to run..but my body won't move an inch
I have to stay calm. I'm sure the other guys here will...WHO THE HELL AM I KIDDING!? They didn't notice him sneaking up on me in the first place!
Screw it all! I'm not gonna be any demon's dinner."


Muster my will and courage to leap away from whatever's behind me and keep my distance to it.
Look around for anything that could be used as a weapon, stay alert.
Also alert teammates in the rec room.

"Hey, guys in the VR's! I hate to keep you from your no doubt great inventions, but Mr. Demon here asks for your attention!"

You spin around. There's nothing there. Uh....oh god...where is he...

You hold the television remote like a light sabre.

Chaz was about to try a combat situation using the VR, until he was interrupted by someone. Ehh... is it really that bad?

Have the VR create a random map.
Have the VR spawn enemy soldiers, starting at a skill level of Recruit.
Have a few rounds against them using what weapons I currently have.
Every time I win: Increase skill level by one rank. Every time I lose: Lower skill rank by one.
Respond to the voice with:


"What Demon? I just got here!"

You and a handful of Ai's punch eachother to death for a while. Maybe you should arm them next time...

Save progress (of particle cannon, if it was possible) and step out of VR, monoatomic sword at the ready.

"Who's bothering me?"
You step out of the VR machine, Your monoatomic sword buzzing. The guy over there by the couch is freaking out, but you can't tell why.

((A demons you say?, Also event though that radiation sounds extremely bad the suits are highly resistant to radiation although keeping the radiation below the max tolerance for the suits would be good although I cant wait to field test as the theroised effects
sounded pretty brutal(nigh instantaneous superheating and massive kinetic energy transfer. ) Also here is the article pyro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam_weapon))

Addendum;
Upon hearing the screams of the madman about Demons or something and postulating that something weird has occured, Save and password protect project and go buy a microwave manipulator and then find this supposed "demon".

You have just enough time to run and grab the Manipulator, but running back and going demon hunting is out of the question. It' a school night, mister.




IN REGARDS TO ION CANNON STUFF:

((
((Also event though that radiation sounds extremely bad the suits are highly resistant to radiation although keeping the radiation below the max tolerance for the suits would be good although I cant wait to field test as the theroised effects
sounded pretty brutal(nigh instantaneous superheating and massive kinetic energy transfer. ) Also here is the article pyro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam_weapon))

((Interesting, but I'm still not entirely sure about a container of neutral gas eliminating the charge on a beam of protons (cations?) that is moving at a very high c-frac. Besides, even if they strip the charge, it has to go somewhere, so the neutral gas won't be neutral for long. And you also have a similar issue to that of Ion engines. These two passages will show you, but when they speak of thrust, that's effectively your beam's power:

Quote from: Dr. John Schilling
And it suffers from the same critical thrust-limiting problem as any other ion engine: since you are accelerating ions, the acceleration region is chock full of ions. Which means that it has a net space charge which repels any additional ions trying to get in until the ones already under acceleration manage to get out, thus choking the propellant flow through the thruster.

The upper limit on thrust is proportional to the cross-sectional area of the acceleration region and the square of the voltage gradient across the acceleration region, and even the most optimistic plausible values (i.e. voltage gradients just shy of causing vacuum arcs across the grids) do not allow for anything remotely resembling high thrust.

Quote from: Erik Max Francis
You can only increase particle energy so much; you then start to get vacuum arcing across the acceleration chamber due to the enormous potential difference involved. So you can't keep pumping up the voltage indefinitely.

To get higher thrust, you need to throw more particles into the mix. The more you do this, the more it will reduce the energy delivered to each particle.

It is a physical limit. Ion drives cannot have high thrusts.

Also, that radiation is, to put it in the outdated units everyone knows, 50000 rems. That's likely to be well above what the suits can protect us from.))

I'm inclined to trust pyro here.

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11853 on: February 11, 2013, 02:54:06 pm »

((For the vacuum test, I meant testing whether a simple combination of a laser rifle and tesla saber bayonet will have any benefits by itself, without the electrolaser stuff getting in the way.

And nonlethal.... well, I assumed it was possible to crank the tesla arc's current low enough to nonlethally electrocute the target, like a very angry tazer. Combined with a lowered intensity of the laser, it may produce a ranged tazer effect.

Good point about the tesla arc, I figured as much. Actually, this was the primary reason I wanted the tesla saber bisected and placed on either side of the rifle. I guess I really will just have to skip the whole "force lightning" thing and just punch people to electrocute them. Hm, how much modification will the tesla arc require? No, scratch that. Will 4 token get me a generator powerful enough to create an open electric arc of comparable voltage and current to electrocute people a-la Tesla Arc? I could just buy that, cobble together a shock gauntlet, and fit it and the laser glove together... think it'll work?))
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Knight Otu

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11854 on: February 11, 2013, 03:01:22 pm »

"Thanks. The name's Gorat "Chin" Ivanos."

Go back to the rec room.

"Uh, what's the commotion?"
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Random Raw Scripts - Randomly generated Beasts , Vermin, Hags, Vampires, and Civilizations
Castle Otu

kisame12794

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11855 on: February 11, 2013, 03:09:31 pm »

"I wanna order an automanip similar to the ones you use in your main guns, only scaled down to work with a gauss rifle."

Exit VR, then find the boy who yelled demon.

"The fuck are you on?"
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 03:43:38 pm by kisame12794 »
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Unholy_Pariah

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11856 on: February 11, 2013, 03:29:32 pm »

slowly walk over towards the side of the roof the trashcan sound came from, cautiously look over the edge and listen carefully, look over my shoulder after a few seconds and if i see it boost dodge aeay from its attack and shoot it with my flamer
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Clearly running multiple missions at the same time is a terrible idea.  The epic battle to see which team can cock it up worse has escalated again.

And Larry kinda gets blueballed in all this; just left with a raging bone spear and no where to put it.

Nikitian

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11857 on: February 11, 2013, 04:30:18 pm »

I see. Thank you for these words of wisdom and competence. Just one more thing on that topic: would you recommend or recommend against pitting one's mind against smaller horrors in order to temper the will and prepare oneself for the real mindfuck? Strictly off-mission, of course.
Or is there an easier way?

Ask.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 07:00:55 pm by Nikitian »
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Past Sigs
Nikitian kneels in front of his computer, fresh lamb's blood on his hands, and prays to the dark powers for answers about armor thickness.

MutzelRX

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11858 on: February 11, 2013, 08:52:34 pm »

((Once again Zephyris is mistaken for a guy D: ..and we need more Ivan-induced paranoia. And TV-remote-weaponry))

"What the...? Where .."
Zephyris, visibly shaken, turned to the people stepping out of the VR's "It's Ivan, that...guy that looked like some kind of abomination from some random corner of hell. I think he kinda wants to live up to his appearance. Did no one notice him moving away from his corner!? Anyways, watch out."
"Where could he have gone now!? What the hell is going on? How comes no one else..oh yes, he should know!".
"Steve!? Where is Ivan? And didn't you call him more or less safe?", something else came to mind,"By the way, does the TV normally spaz out randomly to shout eerie messages at people about flesh being weak or something?"

She then proceeded to put her back against a wall to prevent anything from sneaking up from behind, holding her trusty probably useless TV remote in hand.

Retreat to nearest wall. Check Ivans corner again just to make sure he's really gone. In case he makes his move: Be ready to cut him to pieces with my lightsaber-remote throw the remote at him as a distraction and hide behind my properly armed teammates.

Edit: Also check the ceiling. If he's there skip to the hiding part of the above and stay away from below him.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 08:09:06 am by MutzelRX »
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In case of emergency:
Scream. Break glass. Bleed to death.
-----
ER: Suicide bombing with miniature suns against living crystalline skyscraper-battleships

Doomblade187

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11859 on: February 11, 2013, 09:52:51 pm »

((About the ion cannons: yeah, I did some moer research, and it seems that the beam does disperse after a few kilometers, and there are tons of other issues too.

Manipulator questions:
Can you create variable for automatic manipulators (such as a dial to change range, or the like)
How small do automated amps come?
How fast can force/vector amps propel something in one 'push'?

Other questions: what kinds/sizes of generators are available? Can lasers run off generators?))

Scan the room for possible enemies/attackers.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 10:46:10 pm by Doomblade187 »
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

Unholy_Pariah

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11860 on: February 11, 2013, 10:31:01 pm »

Other questions: what kinds/sizes of generators are available? Can lasers run off generators?))

as a matter of fact yes, nikitian made a series of "pulse" rifles by replacing the battery in the laser rifle with Gauss generators and a capacitor bank

here

Research results
Conventional
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Auxiliary systems:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



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Clearly running multiple missions at the same time is a terrible idea.  The epic battle to see which team can cock it up worse has escalated again.

And Larry kinda gets blueballed in all this; just left with a raging bone spear and no where to put it.

Doomblade187

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11861 on: February 11, 2013, 10:41:48 pm »

((I'm basically looking into a backpack/belt generator that can power most energy weapons through a power cable that can be switched between weapons. That, and a 'pain ray' for semi-nonlethal use, and an improvised meltagun.

In effect, remove the battery limits and use a generator for a lot more power capacity. I may go for fusion/fission.))
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 10:47:22 pm by Doomblade187 »
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11862 on: February 11, 2013, 11:48:42 pm »

((Anton is trying pretty much the same thing with the Heavy combat suit, except also having an exoskeleton. Generators can power anything, the problem is that the bigger ones will dish out more power than the smaller weapons and gear can handle. So you'll need power transformers and/or capacitor banks for such a system to work.

Also, I think I'll just conduct the experimentation through an action.))

Bring up list of available power generators. Estimate costs of such generators powerful enough to run: a laser rifle, a Tesla Arc, and a Tesla Saber (not all at once, just one for each).

Attempt to use a Tesla Arc-level generator to create a shock gauntlet - a forearm piece mounting the generator (if possible, otherwise make it a backpack version), leading to a pair of arc rods on the "glove" to create an open spark. The array should be sufficiently sturdy to endure the stress of being used as a punching implement.

If successful, devise a way to combine the gauntlet with the Hand Laser in a way that would allow it to be used as an electrolaser.
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Multiworld Madness Archive:
Game One, Discontinued at World 3.
Game Two, Discontinued at World 1.

"Europe has to grow out of the mindset that Europe's problems are the world's problems, but the world's problems are not Europe's problems."
- Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, Minister of External Affairs, India

Doomblade187

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11863 on: February 11, 2013, 11:50:15 pm »

((I'll probably just create a battery pack adapter type thing with a transformer.))
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In any case it would be a battle of critical thinking and I refuse to fight an unarmed individual.
One mustn't stare into the pathos, lest one become Pathos.

Empiricist

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Re: Einsteinian Roulette: Crushing dreams and skulls.
« Reply #11864 on: February 12, 2013, 02:42:07 am »

Victor exit the airlock with his newly assembled weapon and walks to the armory.
"Steve, did I miss anything while I was in the airlock?"
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