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Author Topic: Everlasting Mecha War (Accept List Up, Still Open)  (Read 11551 times)

RAM

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2012, 02:07:52 am »

location is listed as southern, I don't see any entry field for a base name...
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kingfisher1112

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2012, 02:18:52 am »

Base
Name: The glourious Kingfisher Collective Mecha Depot.
Owner: Kingfisher Collective inc.
Location: East
6 Agriculture Blocks (150 Points, Supports 30 People)
3 Mecha Hangers (125 Points, 3 Fully Upgradable Mechs)
5 Defense Blocks (75 Points, +?? HP to Base)

Crew:
-Researcher: 30
-Engineer: 4
-Backup Pilot: 4
-Speaker: 2
-Interrogator: 2


Mechs
Vakarian 1
Shell: Kitsune
Weapons:2 mantis-1's and a DragonBreath.
Core: Law001

Zorah 1
Shell: Regualator
Weapons: 3 anubises.

Core: Law001
Shepard 1
Shell: HVAU-1
Weapons: 4 ERMS
Core: Law001

Pilots:
Saren
21
Male.

Ashley
26
Female

Miranda
29
Female
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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2012, 03:12:07 pm »

A few questions or comments:
1. Do we have to pay points for workers?
2. What does it mean, that charge missiles are less effective?  Do they have a malus, or is it just the lower average damage?
3. Is there any way to expand our bases later?
4. adwarf, you seem to have underarmed your mechs.  Any reason for this?
5. How fast do shields regenarate?
6. The blades are unbalanced strongly in favor of the Fang.
7. when it says that Angled missile launchers fire at the start of each turn, does that mean that other weapons do not?
8. Is range taken into account?

The battle idea was written up today. Vertical missiles hit on the user's next turn, Angled missiles hit first regardless of speed.
Workers take up Agriculture points. If you have enough agriculture to have 5 researchers, then you can have those researchers.
Base expansion is done through attacking other players or spending research points. I hadn't expected this much attention so quick, and kinda still had some stuff to write D:
Charge missiles won't do as much damage, on average. It sounded better than not telling you that straight up.
Shields regen at 5 per turn if your core has the minimum energy. If you have a core with Energy [100/10] and a shield [20/5] then every turn your generator gains 5 energy and the shield regens 5 points. You can choose to boost a shield with your energy up to the original maximum, but you have to pay energy each five points. This is why better shields cost more points- they're harder to bring back to full capacity without eating all your energy.
Fang is unbalanced. Thanks for pointing that out. It helps a lot to have feedback, that goes for everyone. I'm not always the best at balance.
Range isn't something that I worked in. The engine seems to be a bit complicated as of yet, so I'm going to hold off on accepting entries just yet- it shouldn't be super hard to convert stuff once this thing is fully written, which should happen today.
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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2012, 03:17:52 pm »

I should point out that the missile launchers are terrrible, because they have far fewer shots than guns and not much better damage per shot.

A lot of this is based off of Front Mission, each one only had a few uses. The ballistic ones are a bit useless, so I hope to get those rebalanced by the time version 1.0 kicks off. I'm glad to have so many people already interested- and don't worry everyone, everything is staying the same except for the weapons which are getting rebalanced. I should also say this now- a mech's parts can be changed any time you aren't fighting. Also. Hangars work like this: You can store as many mechs as will fit (100 hangar points = you can store ten mechs tops). None of those will be repairable. If you have only 8, which is 25/10x7, only one mech can be repaired after a battle. This works for regular PvP and solo missions, but isn't so good for base defenders.
If you have only four, any of them and all of them can be repaired after any fight.

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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2012, 04:01:43 pm »

So then, the idea behind this is post-apocalyptic mech wars- that never end.

First off, you need to create a [Base.]
You can spend up to 350 points on each of the three sections of a base, in blocks of 25 points.
Agriculture: 5 points supports one crew.
Hangar: Every 10 points allows for another mech to be stationed, however, it takes 25 per mech to be able to upgrade and repair.
Defense: Defenses are your base's defense against invaders. Every 25 points in this gives another 100HP to the health of your base.

Once your base is made, you'll require a [Crew.]
Crew members are as follows:
-Researcher: Once per turn, generates one Research point. You can spend these on weapon suggestions. More points means more chances to get the weapon, however, it must be reasonable (If it's got amazing power, it won't have much ammo or something.) If a request is bad, no points are lost.
-Engineer: They can repair a unit once per turn, and can use a Research point to increase one of your mech's stats.
-Backup Pilot: Not required. They can bring out a mech during an assault without the need of the base's controller to be online (I.E., you say 'Retreat at x HP, blah blah, and I'll do the fighting.)
-Speaker: Needed for trading between bases. If two players agree to a trade and have a Speaker, then it's a viable trade.
-Interrogator: Capturing an enemy unit and having this on base allows you to obtain one of the enemy technologies or mech parts you don't have.
---

If you really don't feel like messing with anything, grab an Engineer and two Researchers at start, then maybe grab a Speaker and Backup pilot.

---

Mechs have three components, shells, cores, and mods.
The shell is the most basic of the suit, determining how many weapon slots a mech has and all stats except for Shields and Energy.
Cores are generators, they determine sheild strength and generator power.
Mods are parts that modify the basic stats of a shell and generator. They are not mandatory, but they are the most common drops.
The first three starter shells are:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
---

Weapons come in three variants, metal, heat, and chemical.

Metal weapons do not have any fun modifiers.
Heat weapons cut through a shield with damage x1.2, but do less to a shell at x0.8
Chemical are reversed, x0.8 shield damage and x1.2 shell damage.

Weapon stats depend on the type of weapon.

There are also starting weapons to choose from:

Rifles

[spoiler]

Anubis-I
Fire [10/3] (Damage and fire rate. 10 is base damage, 3 is the number of attacks and ammo consumption. This rifle, assuming all shots hit, does 30 damage.)
Ammo [42M] This shows ammo type and total. This weapon has 42 metal shots. M is metal, H is heat, and C is chemical.
Accuracy [80] The chances of an attack hitting out of 100. So this hits 4/5 times, theoretically.

Mantis-I
Fire [30/1]
Ammo [12C]
Accuracy [90]

I think maybe 16 would be better if this was a main weapon, but if I did that, this gun's damage would be nerfed slightly.

Carat I
Fire [5/5]
Ammo [50H] Heat rounds use either ammo, or, if the box reads "HE", the number is the energy consumed by the rifle from the generator.]
Accuracy [80]

High ammo gun that, while weak in power, offers a lot of shots should any miss.

---Launchers---

Launchers have two extra stats, [type] and [launch]. Type is the missile type, which can be "Ballistic", "Charge", or "Chaff". Ballistic is straightforward, like metal bullets, Charge ignores shields but are often not very good to use other than this fact, and Chaff missiles are a guaranteed, but often cheap, hit. Launch is either [Horizontal], which has no fun additions, [Vertical] which hits the next turn, and [Angled] which always fire at the start of a turn.

-Dragonbreath 01
Fire [25/1]
Ammo [4]
Accuracy [80]
Type [Charge]
Launch [Vertical]

ERMS-01
Fire [15/3]
Ammo [15]
Accuracy [85]
Type [Ballistic]
Launch [Horizontal]

Missiles are supposed to be like half rifle half blade- rifles for their ease of use and limited use, blades in effectiveness. If someone wants to take a shot at balancing these better, be my guest.

Lastly, there are blades.
Blades only have Fire and Accuracy stats.

Fox Fang
Fire [10/3]
Accuracy [80]

Scorpion
Fire [25/1]
Accuracy [85]

Rapier-X
Fire [50/1]
Accuracy [15]

Blade ver 1.0. Any balancing troubles will be fixed if and when they arise.

---


So now you have your base and your fully built mech. Two last things before you're done though...

Pilot Stats
This is simple. For every 3 kills a pilot gets, a level point is given. Level points are used on these:
Rifle Aim : Rifles gain +5 accuracy for each point, but cannot reach over 95 for a rifle.
Launcher Aim :Above with rifles.
Blade Combo : For every two points, gives another strike with blades.
Rife Capacity : Each point raises total rifle ammo by 5.
Launcher Capacity : Same as above with rifles.
Blade Critical : Each point gives a 5 percent chance to deal an extra 10 blade damage
Escape: One point allows a pilot to be retained after death. If he/she loses in combat, this point is removed along with three out of every four points in other stats. In such a way that 2 points becomes 1 point, and 5 points becomes 2 points.

Pilots need a name, age, gender, and page with all the information from this page. People in your base can be given as littte of a description as "researcher" to something more dwarfy.

With pilot stats down, a base, and a mech, there's just one last step, i pwomise.

Location. This has no effect until we get 8+ people. You can have any of the four theatres: Northern, Eastern, Southern, and Western. Each has it's own common weather, battlefields, and tasks to do when not PvPing.

It sounds really complicated, but it will get easier once everything is made. Changing something out is a simple copy/paste. You have near direct control over new weapons, and they can always be whored through tasks...

Tasks: There are things to kill. Go do it, and you get rewarded with some random drops. If you do well, you may get to name a never-before-seen part, mod, or weapon.


Ok. Balancing sucks. I know. I'll work on that now. I have a headache atm, so any errors, point them out, please.
I'm going to get you all the formulas, I promise. Just not today. My head feels like an iron spike is stuck in it.

The battle engine comes in three variants, Pvp, Mission, and Base Assault

PvP is the most staightforward, each player involved sets a number of mechs to send out (Like each player uses 1, 3, etc.) and they fight it out. Players can bet beforehand on things, such as research points, base blocks, entire mechs, etc. Show me the results, and I may reward you with a randomized drop- I will balance these, I swear- much like researching a weapon core, or shell would do.

Mission is fighting predetermined suits. They come in solo, which is mostly one-on-one fights where the rewards are set beforehand, and multi, where three mech teams fight a preset three mech team. Again, with preset drops.

Base Assault is where one player can challenge another player. The player attacked can use every resource in defending themselves they have, but in the case of them not responding in any form over the course of 24 hours, hopefully they had an automated defense plan- if not,  I'll just see what I can do about that. Remember that after the skirmish is over, a team has (10 minus [Turn number of skirmish at end /2]) to destroy your wall and take what they want!

Winning players can take one of the following three items:
One base block.
One mech part not in use by one of the mechs at the base.
Up to five crewmembers.

Battle is turn based, and here's how it works:
Energy is needed to run shields, move, and to use certian heat weapons.
Shields automatically consume the second digit in their stats, leaving the core with whatever energy it generated extra up to it's capacity.

Movement takes 5 energy per category- you can move to-
Extreme Distance- Only missile launchers work here.
Long distance- Missile launchers work, and rifles lose 50 accuracy.
Medium Distance- Missile Launchers are harder to aim (-30% accuracy) and rifles work normally
Short Distance- Missile Launchers are very hard to aim (-50% accuracy) and rifles work normally
Close Distance- Only blades work here.

Fights begin at Long Distance.

So let's say your mech carries a blade. At the very start of battle, you choose to move to Close, spending 15 energy, attacking, then your opponent moves to Extreme- costing 20 energy- then it fires a missile launcher. That's both range and movement in the most plausible yet easy way I could think of.

So there's that.

Next up is attacking- you can use one weapon per turn. Pilot abilities or mods may change this later. Thinking of ways to balance this.

Types and Weather for cores has been removed until further notice. Make according changes now.
Chaff missiles have been changed to homing missiles. Homing missiles do not miss, but the need for computer control limits their explosive payloads.

So hopefully everything is more balanced now? I hope? Any concerns or problems can be made known still.
Furthermore, I'll put all the formulas here after they're written.
Mech Hangars:
Each mech needs at least 10 points of Hangar to be stored- this allows it to go on missions or autodefend- but their HP will not be reset after a fight and they won't be able to be given new parts.
If you have 25 points for one mech, they are fully repaierd after battle and their loadouts can change at any time not in battle. A mech that has participated in a battle cannot swap hangars until 24 hours later, for balance issues. (No. You can't use one hangar to repair everything.)

Did I miss anything? Speak up. I'll get this thing airborne, I promise. Go ahead and change your loadouts now, and if anyone sees one that is broken, inform the person and or me. I can't check everyone's work, not with the amazing amount of people already joining... Should have been ready. I apologize.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 04:05:37 pm by Tsuchigumo550 »
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Draxis

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2012, 04:36:08 pm »

Spoiler: Base Information (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Mechs (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Pilots (click to show/hide)
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Luke_Prowler

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2012, 04:44:54 pm »

Keeping my eye on this
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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2012, 10:32:07 pm »

I decided to join my own game, hopefully to example-ify the rules as they stand.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The only problem is is that it's out of order, but that really dosen't matter. Note that while a pilot should have their own mech, this is not mandatory in any way, shape, or form.

Entries will be accepted when:
You have enough pilots for your mechs total. You need 5 pilots for 5 mechs, but not 3 pilots for 1 mech (acceptable, not required)
You have it all under one spoilertag. Stop, hatin is bad. I know, but it's so I can put all your info down in one place really easily.
You have chosen your Theatre.
You have chosen your Base Blocks.

After all that's done, and it's spic and span, and we have at least 4-6 players, we'll kickstart this thing with the first group of missions and the opening of 1v1 and Free For All PvP. 1v1 is two people, free for all is up to 4. Mechs can be anywhere from 1 mech per player to 5 mechs per player. It's like having one goblin and one badger, or five goblins and five badgers.

Before I finally leave, I'll give you a little teaser as to one of the missions.

"... Went down somewhere in the Southern Theatre... valuable cargo... get it before they do... destroy the opposition"
This mission will be one of four.

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Alright you two. Attempt to murder each other. Last one standing gets to participate in the next test.
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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2012, 10:39:04 pm »

[spoiler]
It seems to me that hangar points need work, I have seen 3 different interpretations:
 You get (hangar points divided by ten) mechs and can modify (hangar points divided by twenty-five) mechs.
 You get ((sub-set of hangar points) divided by ten) mechs without upgradability and ((remaining hangar points) divided by twenty five) mechs with upgradeability.
 You get ((sub-set of hangar points) divided by ten) mechs and the ability to upgrade ((remaining hangar points) divided by twenty-five) of those.
Additionally, is the upgrade option tied to a specific mech? Or can the upgradeable mech be changed, so it would act more like a limit on the number of upgrades performed per turn.

Also, is ammo measured in sustained firing time or total shots? I am guessing the former, otherwise the Mantis-I has twice the ammo of the Anubis-I, which doesn't seem even remotely balanced...


I agree. The balancing was crap.
Upgrades are like mods except permanent, things are slowly going to get stronger, so it's a way to keep up. I'm thinking about putting a cap on how many upgrades a specific mech can have. Upgrades are tied to shells and give a designation- let's say that an upgrade of HP+50 gives "D". You put it on a Kitsune. It's now a still-tradeable, still-swappable Kitsune-D.

Ammo is total shots you can fire, the second number in Fire is the amount of times it attacks and also the number subtracted from Ammo.
Note that when a mech runs out of ammo, it can either retreat, offer a draw, or have equipped a soon-to-be-launched weapon that has no damage but holds a lot of bullets. The three planned for release are 200M, 150C, and 150H at the moment.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:44:14 pm by Tsuchigumo550 »
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RAM

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2012, 10:43:12 pm »

I believe that average damage can be calculated by multiplying (damage per shot) x (number of shots) x (chance of hitting). So for the bladed weapons for example:
Spoiler: bladed weapons (click to show/hide)

P.S.
Editing my original post
Also, is ammo measured in sustained firing time or total shots?
For example, if a weapon has Fire:[10/3] and Ammo:[9], can it fire nine times over three turns? or 27 times over 9 turns...
Wow, answer crept up on me. I swear it wasn't there when I posted.

P.P.S.
 One mission of four, there are four regions, don't all come up to my southern region just because it was mentioned...

P.P.S.P.S.
 Yes, of course south is up, We live in the jagged mountains where only fools dare tread!
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:53:26 pm by RAM »
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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2012, 10:48:15 pm »

I love you RAM. You are so amazing.

Nah, a weapon with a Fire of [10/3] and Ammo [9] is fired three shots a turn, meaning that after three uses it's ammo hits 0 and it becomes useless. There's a reason I did it that way, mostly the ammo boxes and such.

So, yeah. To do list:
Change the blades to copy utilize RAM's amazing work
Change the other weapons accordingly, although these may or may not get much change.
Change the pilot upgrade system to work on multipliers
Set up the upgrade mech system
Write the formulas

Thanks everyone for being patient. In fact, without much of you helping me, I'd have so many issues this would have crashed and burned day one. I'll have this up and running by Friday. That's my goal.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:52:33 pm by Tsuchigumo550 »
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Alright you two. Attempt to murder each other. Last one standing gets to participate in the next test.
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RAM

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2012, 12:19:29 am »

6 Agriculture Blocks (150 Points, Supports 30 People)
3 Mecha Hangers (125 Points, 3 Fully Upgradable Mechs)
5 Defense Blocks (75 Points, +?? HP to Base)
points seem to be the wrong way around, 3 hangers is 75 points and five defence blocks would be 125, and would be worth 500 HP.
Crew:
-Researcher: 30
-Engineer: 4
-Backup Pilot: 4
-Speaker: 2
-Interrogator: 2
You seem to have 42 people with enough agriculture to support 30, unless you can steal a significant supply of food and breathable air from somewhere you will lose some of those...


P.S.
 I would like to see another range category at which no weapons work, for people who want to get a mech out of harm's way. Enemies could still, presumably, close range on them, but it would drain energy when they probably have closer targets...

P.S.P.S.
 Are mechs going to have distances relative to each other, or relative to the battlefield? If it is relative to the battlefield then they will be able to choose not to engage at ranges that they are not primed for. If it is relative to each other then there will probably be occasions when two mechs are using blades at close range and each has an ally mech using missiles from extreme range from the first two. The two missile mechs would have a distance from each other of extreme plus four or fiveish...

P.P.S.
 Ammunition should probably be thought of in terms of total damage. The Carat I has enough ammo to deal 5*50*80%=200 average damage, while the mantis-I has enough ammunition for 30*12*90%=324 average damage.

P.P.P.S.
 I think that my entry should now conform to specifications.

P.P.P.P.S.
 How should research proposals be submitted? Do we suggest some sort of technology, like a nuclear-fission-powered core? Perhaps a detailed list of specifications, like a blade with 50/1 damage and an accuracy of 75%. Maybe a description of what we want, such as a core that generates enough energy to fully charge its shields each turn. Do we just ask for improvements on current technology, perhaps asking for a Mantis-II or improving a mechanical core we dug up on a mission? Would we choose from a list of potential researches each turn?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 01:50:28 am by RAM »
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Happerry

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2012, 03:42:54 am »

PTW and later on make a sheet once you have the new rules you mentioned up.
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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2012, 03:55:58 pm »

Research is done in two ways: asking for an upgrade of a weapon you've encountered (Like researching an Anubis II.) or asking for a kind of part: exact details are allowed, or you could say "A generator with a small cheap shield but lots of energy". It's your way of asking me to add in something.
You can spend up to 100 research points or as little as 10. Weapons at 10 points are the most likely to either not be created or not be very useful, and 100 would be the closest to the idea that it can get.

You can ask for:
New weapons.
New cores.
New shells.
Upgrades to the above three.
A new type of weapon.
A new type of missile.
---

As for a large part of the problem ahead I see that no one has asked:
Days = Turns, for bases. 10 researchers crank out 10 research every 24 hours.
Battles: A turn is one player doing all movement and firing for that turn. Turn order for 3 mech teams go by individual mech.

One last implement is Crisis Missions.
Crisis missions affect the overall story based on if more people defeat it or not- you don't have to participate, but you won't get loot and probably won't get any more than a minor bonus if it's passed. Losing can have effects on every base in a theatre, or even on all the theatres...

Crisis missions are generally theatre exclusive and can pop up as soon as there are three bases in a theatre. They generally have some form of time limit, but some do not.



Also, most, if not all cores, should be able to have at least 5 surplus energy at the end of a turn. That is, unless someone WANTS a core with a shield that can be broken by standing around...

Thanks for letting me know your entry conforms to new specifications. If everyone else interested will do the same, I can get you approved on Friday.

Distances are mech-to-mech related. I may either tweak so that extreme is too far away for all but one kind of missile, or add a last layer- OoVR, or Out of Visible Range. If you move there, you can "Retreat!" and it counts as a loss- but you can live for another day.

You know, hold it. The distance was cobbled together last second. Everyone, post your prefrence: the current system of mech-relevant distance, calculated per turn (A missile mech goes to Extreme from Long, using 5 energy! It's target goes to Extreme next turn, costing no energy.)

or a battlefield related one, like a number line or football field where 0 is middle ground
Mech 1 moved from -6 to -2, costing 20 energy! Mech 2 moved from 6 to 4, costing 10 energy! The mechs are now 6 units apart.
Mech 1 moved from -1 to 0, costing 5 energy! Mech 2 moved from 1 to 0, costing 5 energy! They are now locked in close quarters combat! Moving away gives your opponent a chance to attack!

Your choice, but I kinda like the number line one. It's just as simple and imo better.
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Alright you two. Attempt to murder each other. Last one standing gets to participate in the next test.
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filiusenox

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Re: Everlasting Mecha War (Infinite slots/ jump in at any time)
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2012, 07:42:53 pm »

Is my app accepted? Or do I need to go edit it?
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