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[BigFatStupidHead]

So, in the current release, I've taken quite a shine to chaining up prisoners instead of just caging or killing them outright. There are some pros and cons to this approach. I've found training melee dwarves on a chained prisoner has many advantages over pitting them into an arena. A circle of prisoners surrounding my entrance often draws out ambushes, and distracts various wildlife, titans, and werebeasts. The pair of immortal goblin guardians chained up in my king's tomb adds a certain elegance. And chaining up goblin thieves in my kiddie pit is just priceless.

Unfortunately, there are problems with chained prisoners. Merchants are scared of my door guards, and I have to unassign them to let the merchants in. Marksdwarf training is far less automatic with chained targets. And for some reason, prisoners sometimes get scooped off of their chains and stored in an animal stockpile, while the chain still lists them as chained.

So, how do you use your chained prisoners, and is getting chained prisoners stored in animal stockpiles a bug, or just a peculiarity?

[ddonohu2]

I've also noticed some odd behavior with chains that I don't recall from previous versions. When I assigned war dogs to a couple of chains they weren't removed from the list of animals to be pastured in one of my zones. This situation led to a loop where the animal was led to a chain then back to the pasture. It was easily solved by removing the animal from the pasture list.

[Garath]

I've also noticed some odd behavior with chains that I don't recall from previous versions. When I assigned war dogs to a couple of chains they weren't removed from the list of animals to be pastured in one of my zones. This situation led to a loop where the animal was led to a chain then back to the pasture. It was easily solved by removing the animal from the pasture list.

this also existed in 31.25

[NedeN]

Merchants are scared of my door guards, and I have to unassign them to let the merchants in.

Have you tried using wall grates and levers? Or if wall grates/bars have pov then use 1x1 bridges. Close them when you need merchants and such to pass by, open when a titan or an ambush comes in

Code: [Select]

###++###
@gB++Bg@
###++###
@gB++Bg@
###++###

# = Wall
+ = Floor
@ = Chain
g = Gobbo
B = Bridge
Just with more/less gobs

[micha]

I've also noticed some odd behavior with chains that I don't recall from previous versions. When I assigned war dogs to a couple of chains they weren't removed from the list of animals to be pastured in one of my zones. This situation led to a loop where the animal was led to a chain then back to the pasture. It was easily solved by removing the animal from the pasture list.

this also existed in 31.25

i've tried to use the great speed of that loop to make a better repeater but from the looks of it they went by too fast for the pressure plates to give off a decent signal.  .. have either of you tried to bug-use that for fun?

[peskyninja]

Merchants are scared of my door guards, and I have to unassign them to let the merchants in.

Have you tried using wall grates and levers? Or if wall grates/bars have pov then use 1x1 bridges. Close them when you need merchants and such to pass by, open when a titan or an ambush comes in

Code: [Select]

###++###
@gB++Bg@
###++###
@gB++Bg@
###++###

# = Wall
+ = Floor
@ = Chain
g = Gobbo
B = Bridge
Just with more/less gobs

Floodgates and doors linked to levers would work too, and there is no risk to atomsmash kids who are passing by.

[micha]

Merchants are scared of my door guards, and I have to unassign them to let the merchants in.

Have you tried using wall grates and levers?

let me mangle the most important sentence i read here last week.. " its guaranteed that traders will spawn where you want them if that's the only way for them to travel that 3 wide path to the depot "  ... four fun forts later i've see this work  .. and fail unless you have a 3x3 spot next to the edge tile for the wagons to show up on (so no channeling down right next to the edge).
(hint, you can not remove the ramps on the edges, but you can put floors on them)

methinks you could use that for the wagons.  give the diplomats some fast, multiple entry way access tunnels from 8 points along the edge and only the guys you want to come to your front door (you have a roof, right? <G>) will actually come there.

when i care, i use this to let diplos in:

..hhPHWW
..WWWW....
..hhPHWW


-- h's are throw away hatches that feed the building destroyers. i used to use one, but in my games with the new version had building destroyers actually walk over one to destroy the pp behind the grate. now i'm using two trash hatches while keeping an eye out (you dont actually need them, but it beats having to rebuild pp's)
-- PH is a pressure plate hatch combo that does not trigger for citizens.
-- both PH's lead to the same .... path. 

if you use these citizen only entrances as part of a wall or just below ground, make them be short and for peace of mind, have them all come out in a short tunnel with weapon traps and a bridge/hatch you can use to seal access. usually this goes one below ground, just above any staircase plumbing.   incidentally, quite often the exits of all my defense related ditches, yes i give them exits, wind up adjecent to the speed entrances.

in the meantime, i'm going to put some captives out there behind bridges, sounds like a great idea!

[Loud Whispers]

^{Captured were-civet}

I keep it under lock and key. And cage trap, because I don't trust it at all, it's apparently broken free once already and I don't even think it's still connected anymore. Might have something to do with transforming in and out of it's were-creature state.

[NedeN]

Floodgates and doors linked to levers would work too, and there is no risk to atomsmash kids who are passing by.

Youre no fun, wheres your sense of dwarven adventure and ingenuity!

^{Captured were-civet}

I keep it under lock and key. And cage trap, because I don't trust it at all, it's apparently broken free once already and I don't even think it's still connected anymore. Might have something to do with transforming in and out of it's were-creature state.

Do you have it chained up to two different chains? Maybe you should cage it one more time, place it inside of that area (still caged) linked to a lever, WALL the area off instead of a door and then pull the lever... or keep it caged in your CMD's room for studying

[Loud Whispers]

Do you have it chained up to two different chains?

Close, turns out the Dwarves kept trying to get her into a cage... And back on the chain... And back into the cage and so on.

[Saiko Kila]

Training military on chained prisoners? I remember from .31.25 that this wasn't giving any experience, checked with Dwarf Therapist. Do I remember wrong?

Also, I had the problem with moving the animal between pasture and chain in .31.25, now in .34.07 I haven't noticed that, but maybe I'm subconsciously avoiding the conditions where it occurs.

[Loud Whispers]

As long as you manually remove them from the pasture it should stop all bugginess

[BigFatStupidHead]

Actually, my problem would be the chained prisoners kept getting packed up into cages and stored in a animal stockpile. I have no idea why it was happening. It might be related to why the aforementioned prisoners also disappear off of the animal assignment screen. Animal invaders also seem to get lost when on chains - tamed elk birds on chains disappear from the animal z-screen, and no longer get trainer attention.

I had a pair of goblin prisoners at my gate attacked by a were-porcupine and survive. They would transform every month, but even in were-form neither escaped nor caused any trouble for citizens passing by. Sadly, human guards came and killed them all.

Training military on chained prisoners? I remember from .31.25 that this wasn't giving any experience, checked with Dwarf Therapist. Do I remember wrong?

I will have to double check if the trainees are getting XP beating up on them. Unfortunately, I have a small deficit in prisoners at the moment, as the aforementioned human guards were around while I was restocking my training grounds.

EDIT: Beating on chained prisoners gives experience normally.

[EpsilonSigma]

Actually, my problem would be the chained prisoners kept getting packed up into cages and stored in a animal stockpile.

Burn all the cages.
I guess the dwarves will find a way around that too though 

[Saiko Kila]

Training military on chained prisoners? I remember from .31.25 that this wasn't giving any experience, checked with Dwarf Therapist. Do I remember wrong?

I will have to double check if the trainees are getting XP beating up on them. Unfortunately, I have a small deficit in prisoners at the moment, as the aforementioned human guards were around while I was restocking my training grounds.

EDIT: Beating on chained prisoners gives experience normally.

I've tested this now, monitoring melee weapon skill, fighter, wrestler, armor user and shield (I don't have kungfu dwarves, so no biting, kicking etc.). The dwarves definitely did not gain experience, except armor user. They were not wrestling or blocking with shield, so maybe these can be gained too, but the most important skill, i.e. weapon one, is not gained. Fighter is not gained (and fighter skill is normally gained with all attacks). The killed goblin is added to the list of kills, that's about any real gain