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[lolsicle]

Hey guys, I tried testing this in arena, but the results were inconclusive. Do nethercap arrows or weapons freeze what they hit? It would be quite interesting if they could harm enemies by freezing them.

[Garath]

does water/booze stored in nethercap buckets/barrels freeze? if not, that should answer your question

[slothen]

There is likely some heat exchange modeled there, but I don't even think creatures die from the cold, short of being encased in ice (even though blood has a freezing point).

[SRD]

Put some nethercap items in water and check.

[lolsicle]

Nethercap doesn't freeze water or booze. Based on the arena testing, I don't think it works. Damn. Maybe if I lowered the temperature enough, it would.

[SRD]

Well nethercap logs are SO cold that they are magma resistance soo... perhaps arm hunters (that have no fat) with nethercap bolts and make the hunt imps! It would be like a silver bullet to a werewolf.

[Sadrice]

It's not that they are so cold, it's that they stay that temperature in all conditions.

[slothen]

indeed.  What we need to know is to what extent temperature interactions are modeled.  Also most organic creatures have the homeotherm tag.  That may have an effect as well.

[i2amroy]

Hey guys, I tried testing this in arena, but the results were inconclusive. Do nethercap arrows or weapons freeze what they hit? It would be quite interesting if they could harm enemies by freezing them.

Nether-cap arrows and weapons are cold, yes. But they are a quite different magnitude of cold then you are thinking of here. They have a fixed temperature of 10,000 Urists, which is the freezing point of water. So it just means that the level of cold is very similar to touching an ice cube (warmer then that actually), not that it will cause all of your fingers to develop frostbite and fall off.

Nethercap doesn't freeze water or booze. Based on the arena testing, I don't think it works. Damn. Maybe if I lowered the temperature enough, it would.

Water in nether-cap buckets/barrels does not freeze because DF actually accounts for the fact that heat exchange is not perfect. While nether cap does make the surrounding area slightly cooler, it doesn't absorb enough heat energy to freeze water. Assuming you lowered the temperature enough it might freeze things, but water that is stored in barrels/buckets is also slightly abstracted, so it might not.

There is likely some heat exchange modeled there, but I don't even think creatures die from the cold, short of being encased in ice (even though blood has a freezing point).

Cold can kill creatures, but the majority of creatures have enough layering (or clothing) that they are fine. If you set world gen to have a lower minimum temperature and then embark somewhere cold you will notice that dwarves that are exposed outside will develop damage on their exposed body parts.

It's not that they are so cold, it's that they stay that temperature in all conditions.

Correct. The reason nether-cap things are immune to magma is that no matter what temperature they are immersed in they will always have an interior temperature of 10,000 Urists, preventing them from catching fire.

indeed.  What we need to know is to what extent temperature interactions are modeled.  Also most organic creatures have the homeotherm tag.  That may have an effect as well.

Homeotherm tends to set the "default" body temperature of a creature, much as how the "default" temperature of the human body is about 98 degrees. It therefore has a small effect upon what temperature a creature emits towards its surroundings, but currently has very little total effect. It is also believed that it has a small effect upon when a creature starts to take heat/cold damage.

[KodKod]

Correct. The reason nether-cap things are immune to magma is that no matter what temperature they are immersed in they will always have an interior temperature of 10,000 Urists, preventing them from catching fire.

Take that, second law of thermodynamics!

[SRD]

So what does one urist equal?

--seeing as -247 or something is absolute zero, i'm guessing 10000 urists is like -10 degrees C

[miauw62]

Its around -275 if im correct.
Anyway, you could try lowering the MAT_FIXED_TEMP of nethercap in the raws to 0, then see what happens

[NW_Kohaku]

It's Fahrenheit with a different name and where 100000 Urists = 32 Fahrenheit.

Incidentally, this means that numbers like 1000 Urists are way below 0 Kelvin/Absolute Zero.

(Once again, suck it, Thermodynamics!)

Anyway, a bucket that is kept at perpetual 32 Fahrenheit/0 Celsius doesn't actually freeze water, necessarily, anyway.  0 Celsius is just the point at which the jump from liquid to solid takes place. 

Nethercaps are somehow infinite thermal sinks that are "connected to another dimension" which always retains the same temperature (presumably because it has functionally infinite mass and conducts heat functionally perfectly), functionally causing everything around it to adopt a similar temperature.

There is a jumping point in the energy state between being a solid chunk of ice and becoming a free-floating set of water molecules.  The solid ice is at a more stable, lower-energy resting state, and as such, more energy is needed than just the amount of specific energy required to move that temperature up a degree in order to make that jump.   

Consider a glass of water with ice in it - for the duration of time the ice is melting, that glass remains at 0 Celsius, because it takes heat energy out of the glass of water in order to force those ice molecules to jump from solid to liquid, but it cannot suck the ambient temperature down below 0 Celsius, barring a Maxwell's Demon scenario. (Freezing water, meanwhile, actually releases heat.  This slows the freezing process down, obviously.)

Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_capacity

[i2amroy]

Nethercaps are somehow infinite thermal sinks that are "connected to another dimension" which always retains the same temperature (presumably because it has functionally infinite mass and conducts heat functionally perfectly), functionally causing everything around it to adopt a similar temperature.

Of course the DF world makes up for it by having things like magma men that perpetually emit energy to the world around them.

[NW_Kohaku]

Clearly, the world of DF either has a very strange version of Entropic Decay...

Or hypothetically, the nether dimension are occasionally converted into magma dimensions through infinite compression of their infinite mass, and magma dimensions are infinitely expanded to become new nether dimensions.

... I just thought of a very cool cosmology.