Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lok_Die]

Knights doing fancy gymnastics in their armour is well documented, combat armour was more problematic for endurance than agility. 50kg+ jousting armour didn't allow much movement, but that was mostly for sport rather than actual combat.

Plate directly on skin wouldn't be very practical, with padding overheating becomes a serious issue.
Well-fitted rigid armour distributes weight quite well, but mail typically puts a lot of it on one's shoulders.
Helms in line with the protection of body armour weren't only likely to cause heat problems but also limited field of vision, hearing and speaking intelligibly.

Modern studies are a bit problematic because testers would need to exercise in armour for months to years. People are quite adaptable, overall fitness/strength usually counts for less than being accustomed to a particular kind of stress.

Having dealt with quality armor reproductions that are forged as opposed to being cookie cutter'd from sheet metal, i would have to say your estimate of armor weight is quite high.
Forged armor which all of it was during the 14th 15th 16th centuries was significantly lighter than modern sheet metal cutouts.  ( interestingly enough, due to the forging, the steel becomes not only thinner but also much stronger.)

To think, i only know this because armoring in dwarf fortress gave me a hardon all those years ago.

[Alastar]

Just for clarification, the "50kg+" referred to the heavy end of dedicated jousting tournament gear, full plate armour meant for actual military use could weigh less than half that.

[Gizogin]

Remember that your dwarves will be wearing multiple chain shirts, helmets over caps over helmets, about sixteen gloves and nine cloaks. Try being agile in that lot.

According to the wiki, a maximally armored dwarf will be wearing:
2 caps, 1 helmet, 6 hoods, 1 breastplate, 3 mail shirts, 6 cloaks, 2 pairs of trousers, 1 pair of greaves, 1 pair of gauntlets, 1 pair of gloves, 1 pair of socks, and 1 pair of boots.  I don't have time right now to do the math, but I get the feeling that's going to weigh a considerable amount (assuming steel armor and pig tail fiber cloth).  The many layers of clothing would be really hot, too.  Seriously, three mail shirts?  That, to me, seems just a little bit excessive.

[Blakmane]

Remember that metal is usually very good at conducting heat--it's not like a big blanket.

Also, that gives me an idea for DF: the lower the armorer skill and the shoddier the armor, the slower a creature goes while wearing it.

Isn't that how it works already? Low armour skill gives you a bigger speed penalty?

[Starver]

Also, that gives me an idea for DF: the lower the armorer skill and the shoddier the armor, the slower a creature goes while wearing it.

Isn't that how it works already? Low armour skill gives you a bigger speed penalty?

Armour skill, does (the skill to use any given armour), but that's distinct from the Armoursmith skill (the skill to create any given armour), which is what I think OP was suggesting.

Obviously both should feature.  Crappy armour gives movement penalties, as does inexperience in using armour.


(And, obviously, that's "Armor" and "Armorsmith", in-game, but that's only because the game has been written by a rebellious colonial. )

[Neonivek]

The thing about Heavy armor is we sort of hit an area too far in one dirrection ("The weight is meaningless")

As my new saying

Platemail is lighter then it seems but more significant then you'd expect.

Plus don't forget that heavy armor tends to be only the top layer. so I should probably watch the video and see if they skip on the mesh and padding that would normally be used with it.

Seriously, three mail shirts?  That, to me, seems just a little bit excessive

On the contrary. You are supposed to layer chainmail. There is a reason it can block arrows inspite of the claims that it cannot.

Why is it that EVERYONE'S idea of chainmail is basically a chain shirt? I even seen videogames do this.

[runlvlzero]

Anyone willing to do the math and work out how much armor weighs in dwarf pixels?

Ide imagine it goes something like material density * size * amount of material used...

[GoldenShadow]

They demonstrate in the video that period mail is so tightly constructed, it can stop a pin prick from piercing it.

[rex mortis]

Each item already has its mass visible in game. It is simply a matter of a little addition. Converting the result into units I am familiar with is another matter.

[Shinotsa]

"Sir, it weighs exactly 42."

"42... 42 whats?"

"Um, Urists sir? Hell if I know."

[Cruxador]

I even seen videogames do this.

Because video games are known for their historical accuracy, right?

Most video games don't do any research and follow general conventions which in modern times stem from the original Dungeons and Dragons, which is mostly unresearched, although its misapprehensions tend to be very similar to those of Victorian "historians" who more or less made shit up because they thought it sounded cool. The idea that armor was heavy and restricting, as well as notions that combat swords were dull, sold books regardless of the fact that it conflicts with what we can observe from surviving period pieces.

[Splint]

I always figured any soldiers wearing chainmail ina game only wore one shirt because that was all they could afford to buy for armor besides semi-rigid padding and a crappy buckler.

[Lok_Die]

I even seen videogames do this.

Because video games are known for their historical accuracy, right?

Most video games don't do any research and follow general conventions which in modern times stem from the original Dungeons and Dragons, which is mostly unresearched, although its misapprehensions tend to be very similar to those of Victorian "historians" who more or less made shit up because they thought it sounded cool. The idea that armor was heavy and restricting, as well as notions that combat swords were dull, sold books regardless of the fact that it conflicts with what we can observe from surviving period pieces.

At the very least, no one has suggested that they used cranes..

[Andrew425]

I found that quite interesting,

On the subject of heat though, I heard that chainmaille(sp?) is very good for dispersing heat and that soldiers during the crusades could walk in the desert without suffering too much from the scorching temperatures.

[King Mir]

The video also seems to demonstrate how hard it is to wear armor not fitted for you. Presumably, it could be adjusted to some degree. But it's not the one size fits all of video games.