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[GoldenShadow]

I stumbled across this video. Its a presentation that debunks armor myths and shows how flexible and agilie armored warriors actualy were. I found it very interesting and educational. I sure helps me appreiciate armor way more. Since Dwarf Fortress's battles are taking part in your imagination to a large extent, its good to have a solid foundation to build off of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqC_squo6X4

If you don't have time to watch the whole thing, some notable points of interest are at 35 minutes how a guy in full plate armor sprinting and fighting; 40 minutes demonstrates the range of motion of full plate armor.

[Hyndis]

70lbs is about the maximum load that an adult man can carry and still be effective in combat. This is the same amount of weight of the kit soldiers carry today (including weapon and armor) as well as the same amount of weight even full plate armor plus a weapon was.

While armor can be made heavier than that its simply not practical to move around in for any length of time because its too heavy.

That said, armor can be very effective despite its relatively light weight. Figure about 65lbs for the armor, plus 5lbs for the weapon and/or shield. A tower shield or pavise is very heavy but provides a huge amount of protection.

Even a two handed maul wouldn't be that heavy. Most sledge hammers are in the 8-12lb range even today. In combat you'd probably have something like an 8lb maul, or a 5lb hammer with a spike on the end.

[runlvlzero]

70lbs is about the maximum load that an adult man can carry and still be effective in combat. This is the same amount of weight of the kit soldiers carry today (including weapon and armor) as well as the same amount of weight even full plate armor plus a weapon was.

While armor can be made heavier than that its simply not practical to move around in for any length of time because its too heavy.

That said, armor can be very effective despite its relatively light weight. Figure about 65lbs for the armor, plus 5lbs for the weapon and/or shield. A tower shield or pavise is very heavy but provides a huge amount of protection.

Even a two handed maul wouldn't be that heavy. Most sledge hammers are in the 8-12lb range even today. In combat you'd probably have something like an 8lb maul, or a 5lb hammer with a spike on the end.

Wearing a well crafted piece of plate armor on your person is allot easier then having a 75 pound rucksack. Modern soldiers hold about 40lb's of gear, ammo, weapon, helmet, and uniform. Their rucks are anywhere between that and 80 lbs. If your carrying the M240 machine gun your carrying a shit ton more weight lol. Plus that ammo is about 2x as heavy as 5.56 Nato rounds.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Of course, full plate armor has other issues. For instance, encasing yourself in metal is a surefire way to get hot...especially if you're running about and killing people. So, while you probably could run in armor, you probably wouldn't want to do it for too long.

[runlvlzero]

Lol probably not for more then a few hundred yards tops.

[Putnam]

Remember that metal is usually very good at conducting heat--it's not like a big blanket.

Also, that gives me an idea for DF: the lower the armorer skill and the shoddier the armor, the slower a creature goes while wearing it.

[Dae]

It'd be fun if when you don't take care of your plate armor, sometimes a joint can jammed and refuse to move... Althoug yeah, that could be abstracter by a constant malus to movement speed.

[MarcAFK]

except you'll be wearing big blankets under your plate armour.

[G-Flex]

The fact that it's good at conducting heat only works particularly well if it's pressed up against your skin. Any amount of air provides good insulation.

Also: Human bodies keep cool by sweating. Sweating in heavy armor probably does not work well; where's the sweat going to evaporate to?

[Cruxador]

I keep forgetting that a lot of people don't already know this.

Remember that metal is usually very good at conducting heat--it's not like a big blanket.

The metal itself doesn't hold in much heat, but it's not like you're gonna be wearing just your normal clothes underneath it.

[Kento]

Also, that gives me an idea for DF: the lower the armorer skill and the shoddier the armor, the slower a creature goes while wearing it.

I love this idea. During the movement/combat speed split we should try to bring this up again. Right now it'd be weird, with gauntlets and helmets slowing down your legs.

[Alastar]

Knights doing fancy gymnastics in their armour is well documented, combat armour was more problematic for endurance than agility. 50kg+ jousting armour didn't allow much movement, but that was mostly for sport rather than actual combat.

Plate directly on skin wouldn't be very practical, with padding overheating becomes a serious issue.
Well-fitted rigid armour distributes weight quite well, but mail typically puts a lot of it on one's shoulders.
Helms in line with the protection of body armour weren't only likely to cause heat problems but also limited field of vision, hearing and speaking intelligibly.

Modern studies are a bit problematic because testers would need to exercise in armour for months to years. People are quite adaptable, overall fitness/strength usually counts for less than being accustomed to a particular kind of stress.

[Starver]

Well-fitted rigid armour distributes weight quite well, but mail typically puts a lot of it on one's shoulders.

Having made and worn my own mail[1], it's a bit more subtle than that.  It moulds itself to the wearer in a way that even cloth does not, and weight is largely borne by all upward-facing surfaces over which it is draped, which is (in an upright position) all the way from the end of the shoulder-joints to the neckline, on both sides, and significant parts of the extreme-upper chest/back take on a proportion of the load.  Which makes it less 'oppressive' than rucksack straps, even for the same weight.  (And it does this better than fully rigid armour, accommodating all kinds of flexibility, although good plate armour is designed with shifting-plate flexibility around that area that, together with the padding, somewhat rectifies this.)    When you lean forward, the weight spreads its way along your back, and if you're on your back then the weight (which is now not even counting the mail that is now supported by the floor that you are laying on) is spread across your front.  Etc.  Of course, if you're wearing the more 'dense' 6-1 or 8-1 linked mail, it sure makes for a whole lot of weight, and I've never worn it in actual combat.

The worst thing about mail(le), IME, is that the inherent slack in the 'hanging' sections has its own inertia when you move around.  Ideally, its own weight, hanging down, closes up the rings in the horizontal direction (this might depend on which way you've 'knitted' the rings, but it applies to some extent or other both ways) and reduces this, but at the lower fringes you certainly feel like a flamenco dancer if you spin around fast enough and it's your top layer of protection so lets itself spin outwards...


[1] Not /strictly/ authentic, but close enough for comparison.

[I am Leo]

Remember that your dwarves will be wearing multiple chain shirts, helmets over caps over helmets, about sixteen gloves and nine cloaks. Try being agile in that lot.

[MarcAFK]

how agile are dwarves anyway?
I'm sure their low center of gravity helps.