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[Callista]

Megaprojects, also. Though, you may lose spectacularly along the way...

[Kel]

Winning doesn't have to be via something militarily - conquering the circus or whatnot. Whilst that is incredibly dwarfy, anyone remember Jong's dwarven computer from a while back? I'd declare that a win.

As for this release... following the computer theme, a minecart-computer would be quite something. Massively inefficient and complex no doubt, but probably possible.

I'm not really sure, a lot of the stuff this release seems to be world-gen and stuff we can't otherwise control - tombs, necromancers, deadly rain etc.

[runlvlzero]

You could consider beating HFS with undead in this release winning to some extent.

A good definition of winning: Was your fort worthwhile, was good times had by all? Did it inspire you to write a small story or take pictures and share on the forums. Those are pretty good wins too...

[JackOSpades]

Winning? Dwarf Fortress? MADNESS I say, those words should not even be in the same paragraph much less the same sentence or used in relation to each other.

with that out of the way...

Okay, how's this for 'winning' conditions for a DF Release;  You must confront and nullify the most deadly environmental aspects of that release.  They must be fully pacified in a way that they are no longer able to harm the dwarves in any way, shape or form.  If there is a random chance of it still harming them, it doesn't count.

On that note, for DF2012, you'd have to negate syndrome rain, build a safe fort in a cursed zone, and prevent syndrome clouds from being able to harm your dwarves at all.

the rain should be do-able by building a Roof across the world. I guess the clouds would take walling off the embark area completely as well, taken together this means building a Bio-dome of sorts over the embark area.
a very difficult task under these conditions but not Impossible given some luck.

[expwnent]

In order to "win" Dwarf Fortress you have to do something previously thought to be severely impossible, or build a fort that's just insanely impressive.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43679.0

[Broseph Stalin]

In order to "win" Dwarf Fortress you have to do something previously thought to be severely impossible, or build a fort that's just insanely impressive.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43679.0

I say this, to have "won" you must do something so obscenely dwarfy that it's universally understood to be impossible and that it's very mention causes people to demand pics and offer you their socks. Nothing else will do.

[Zale]

Make a clown terrarium. In your dining room, atop your sprawling sky-city held up by a single pillar of marble.

 

[ThatAussieGuy]

I think he's cool, just a little stubborn at times.

As for where the majority resides, we mainly showed up for the month or so after he declared he won, then we realized we weren't going to convince him and stopped worrying about it. The reason that you only hear people call it a win is because everyone who didn't stopped talking about it a year ago. (Just a note here, but people have defeated and lived in hell before he did it, it's just that he was the first one to widely publicize what he did and the first to refer to it as "winning". I mean, I turned the equivalent of hell into a dining room back in 40d for goodness sake.)

For the record, I didn't just build a colony in hell (in fact I mention and credit that others have done it in the thread), I walled the entire perimeter and floored it over so no demons could enter at all.  I called it a win as a joke once because the HFS is apparently marked as 'endgame' in the 31.25 raws and I'd technically 'beaten' it.  The others just thought it was funny and ran with it.

Honestly, you couldn't really do the same with the new version as there's far too much that can't be safely contained or controlled.  Sure, you could isolate your dwarves in their hole in the ground, but that'd mean no migrants.  Even if you do get migrants, there's the inherent danger of vampires hidden among them.  If you set up a fort in a Cursed Biome, no matter WHAT you do, a death in the fort will be dangerous. And so on and so forth.

[Urist Da Vinci]

There appears to be a shortage of people "winning" the game without using exploits. Let's define exploits as checkerboards, danger rooms, drawbridge isolation doors, atom smashing, and quantum stockpiles for starters.

Is anyone Dwarf enough to defeat HFS in traditional army combat, after a long period of conventional military training and forging of many, many masterpiece weapons and armor?

[ThatAussieGuy]

There appears to be a shortage of people "winning" the game without using exploits. Let's define exploits as checkerboards, danger rooms, drawbridge isolation doors, atom smashing, and quantum stockpiles for starters.

Is anyone Dwarf enough to defeat HFS in traditional army combat, after a long period of conventional military training and forging of many, many masterpiece weapons and armor?

I'm pretty sure someone did.  Didn't the guy who originally got a colony into hell do it that way?

[Corai]

There appears to be a shortage of people "winning" the game without using exploits. Let's define exploits as checkerboards, danger rooms, drawbridge isolation doors, atom smashing, and quantum stockpiles for starters.

Is anyone Dwarf enough to defeat HFS in traditional army combat, after a long period of conventional military training and forging of many, many masterpiece weapons and armor?

I'm pretty sure someone did.  Didn't the guy who original got a colony into hell do it that way?

He used a checker-board to make them into obsidian.

[rtg593]

There appears to be a shortage of people "winning" the game without using exploits. Let's define exploits as checkerboards, danger rooms, drawbridge isolation doors, atom smashing, and quantum stockpiles for starters.

Is anyone Dwarf enough to defeat HFS in traditional army combat, after a long period of conventional military training and forging of many, many masterpiece weapons and armor?

I'm pretty sure someone did.  Didn't the guy who original got a colony into hell do it that way?

He used a checker-board to make them into obsidian.

... Umm... You said that in reply to the guy known for inventing that checkerboard :p

He meant the guy that did it old school, with a well trained army :p

In order to "win" Dwarf Fortress you have to do something previously thought to be severely impossible, or build a fort that's just insanely impressive.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43679.0

Ho-ly... Not much literally makes my jaw drop...

[slothen]

So I got to thinking, that one Guy was considered to have won 2010 because he made a mockery of HFS, removing the greatest threat to a fort, and living there.

If you define winning as "One guy colonizes HFS and claims to have won the game regardless of the fact that the majority of the forum cries out that it's impossible to win DF". Then yes, he won. Personally I think that what he did was incredibly dwarfy, but it doesn't count as "winning". DF is like the game, all you can do is play until you lose. I mean after all even that fortress where he claimed that he "won" came to an end eventually, right? Whether it is by goblins, HFS, lag, or even boredom, eventually your game ends and you lose. You can't win, all you can do is claim that you can and then don't accept the fact that the majority of the forum disagrees with your statement.

You're being far too literal.  Everyone knows there's no winning, and its because everyone knows it that its fun to say that he won the unwinnable game.  It's tongue-in-cheek .  You could argue that this thread ruins the whole thing by either taking the joke to far or taking it too seriously by attempting to define a future win.

That said, under the premise that colonizing HFS was a win, then i would think the next logical step would be to domesticate HFS as much as dwarvenly possible.  HFS batteries spewing fire and poison and webs onto invaders, HFS silk clothing and silk ropes and silk decorations.  HFS roasts, crafts, and bone armor.  HFS execution pits, HFS fire for water-removal/vaporization.  Demon zoos.  Although I think AussieGuy has done a bunch of this already.

One sad thing about the HFS parts though is that they have no base material multiplier, and there is no way to add one even after worldgen, so demon-silk cloaks wouldn't be as valuable as pig tail ones.

There appears to be a shortage of people "winning" the game without using exploits. Let's define exploits as checkerboards, danger rooms, drawbridge isolation doors, atom smashing, and quantum stockpiles for starters.

Is anyone Dwarf enough to defeat HFS in traditional army combat, after a long period of conventional military training and forging of many, many masterpiece weapons and armor?

I'm pretty sure someone did.  Didn't the guy who originally got a colony into hell do it that way?

It was a long time ago, but if my memory serves me correctly in the thread you refer to, the guy did it by modding various domestic animals to be 100 times larger than demons, e.g.  "the stray puppy kicks the Pteradon fiend in the lower body with his back right foot and the severed part sails off in an arc!"

As for defeating HFS in glorious combat, I believe it has been done before with soldiers and regular war animals.  100 + legendaries with the right formation can do it fairly easily, and the biggest determinant of success/failure is how many problematic demon-types you get on worldgen.

[ThatAussieGuy]

Under the premise that colonizing HFS was a win, then i would think the next logical step would be to domesticate HFS as much as dwarvenly possible.  HFS batteries spewing fire and poison and webs onto invaders, HFS silk clothing and silk ropes and silk decorations.  HFS roasts, crafts, and bone armor.  HFS execution pits, HFS fire for water-removal/vaporization.

One sad thing about the HFS parts though is that they have no base material multiplier, and there is no way to add one even after worldgen, so demon-silk cloaks wouldn't be as valuable as pig tail ones.

You could actually do harvest demon parts quite easily based on Swordthunders.  I've heard demons WILL be hit by traps if you force them to cross them, or something like that, so if you slap some serrated disc traps in the contained spawnpoints, you'll have enough demon parts to feed and cloth a fortress for ages.

[slothen]

Under the premise that colonizing HFS was a win, then i would think the next logical step would be to domesticate HFS as much as dwarvenly possible.  HFS batteries spewing fire and poison and webs onto invaders, HFS silk clothing and silk ropes and silk decorations.  HFS roasts, crafts, and bone armor.  HFS execution pits, HFS fire for water-removal/vaporization.

One sad thing about the HFS parts though is that they have no base material multiplier, and there is no way to add one even after worldgen, so demon-silk cloaks wouldn't be as valuable as pig tail ones.

You could actually do harvest demon parts quite easily based on Swordthunders.  I've heard demons WILL be hit by traps if you force them to cross them, or something like that, so if you slap some serrated disc traps in the contained spawnpoints, you'll have enough demon parts to feed and cloth a fortress for ages.

Spike traps work ofc.  But I was referring to this thread http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=105999.msg3143631#msg3143631  I thought it was another exploit of yours, but apparently not.