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What should we use for the Bard Class?

The present build (Continuance Effect based)
BMM42's build (page 38)
A different build (Submit in thread)

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Author Topic: Homestuck RPG v1.2 build thread  (Read 79557 times)

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #615 on: November 19, 2012, 09:28:25 am »


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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #616 on: November 20, 2012, 05:28:03 am »

What if we changed Lookie! to a Ranged 5 power, and let you choose up to 3 targets?

As for Mime's Revenge, I figured adding an additional effect might be a bit much, seeing as how you have the opportunity to use it as what amounts to a free action.

I kind of want to make a power that either takes advantage of deafened (too situational), or causes deafened and then applies a damage penalty when attacking deafened opponents. But it's 5 in the morning, so I might be dumb.

Dumb idea power (Maybe HONK?)
Standard Action - At will       Melee or Ranged
Target: One enemy in range
Attack: Pul + your level + Weapon Precision vs. AC
Hit: 1[W]+ level +Plc modifier damage and the enemy is deafened until the end of their next turn.
Special: If the enemy was not deafened prior to the attack, this attack deals extra damage equal to your PLC modifier.

Anyway, we've spent a LOT of time on the Bard. We have to address the Maid as well.

The Maid Interacts their Aspect by performing duties in service to it. I dunno about this. How would this be utilized in gameplay? I don't know.

The Maid plays a strong Controller game.

Class Alignment: Unknown but likely passive
Attribute: Mangrit
Skill Bonus: By The Game’s Laws Bound- +4 to Skaian Lore
Traits: Excellent Qualifications- Gain a +1 bonus to your Fortitude, Reflex and Will defenses.
Eternal Service- You do not receive the Dying condition when reduced to 0 HP or lower, and may act as normal. Additionally, you need not roll Death Saving Throws, and are automatically treated as if you had rolled a 10, though you may choose to roll normally instead, with the usual chance of failure. You still die when reduced to your negative bloodied value.

Eternal Service is a HUGE issue. Much too powerful. There are a few ways we can change it. 1: Allow Maids to forgo Death Saves while dying, but slow and weaken them to balance it. 2: Allow dying Maids to act normally, but make them make Death Saves as normal.

Brutal Affront(lvl 2): Crush The(ir) Heart- You deal 1d8 extra damage, and may take 1d8 damage. If you do so, you slide the target up to three squares and immobilize him. (Grave Blunder: You take 1d8 extra damage, and an enemy take 1d6 damage to deal 1d6 damage to you.)
Aggrievements, choose two of the following, later you may choose to gain a third (lvl 8 ) :

 Take Their Place   
Standard action – At-will   Ranged- OR Melee-Kind
Target: One creature
Attack: Mgt + your level + Weapon precision vs. AC
Hit: 1 [W] + Mgt + your level damage.
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, if the target deals damage to an ally within three squares of you, you may, as an immediate interrupt, shift up to three squares to a spot adjacent to the ally and take half the damage the ally would have taken in his stead. If you do so, add Hit: The target has -2 to all you make until the end of your next turn attack rolls until the end of your next turn to any attacks.   

I don't even understand what's going on at the bottom of that text. It should probably be scrapped in any case- As it is, the Maid can force attacks off of her allies and receive half damage from attacks meant for her allies every turn.

Cycle of Revenge
Standard action – At-will         Ranged- OR Melee-Kind
Target: One creature
Attack: Mgt + your level + Weapon Precision  vs. AC
Hit: 1 [W] + Mgt + your level damage, and you and the target are dazed until the end of your next turn.

Unbelievably exploitable, especially against single targets. Slowed or Weakened might be better substitutes, but maybe there are other options that would fit better.

Make Them Pay   
Standard action – At-will      Ranged- OR Melee-Kind
Target: One creature
Attack: Mgt + your level + Weapon precision vs. AC
Hit: 1 [W] + Mgt + level damage.
Effect: Before making the attack, you may spend Hit Points equal to half your level (minimum 1) +1. If the attack hits, you then apply one of the following effects to it:
-The target takes automatic damage equal to twice your level at the start of its turn, and automatic damage equal to twice your level if it ends its turn adjacent to you.
-The target is pushed up to three squares away from you and is slowed (save ends).   

One of the people who commented on the document had this to say:
This is really good and only gets better as the game goes on. Pay 6 HP to deal at a minimum 20 extra damage, and up to 40, on an attack with a perfectly average attack roll and thus not a very large miss chance.
A just under quadruple return from hit point sacrifice is probably too much. We can keep this effect, but we should likely change it from double level damage to just level damage.


 Brave Sacrifice
Immediate Interrupt – Encounter      Close Burst 3
Trigger: An ally is hit by an attack.
Effect: The attack hits you instead, and your ally suffers no ill effects and may immediately make a Basic Aggrievement against the attacker with a bonus to damage equal to your Mangrit modifier and level.


Boon (lvl 3), gain the following power:
  Broken Body, Unbroken Spirit
Free action - Encounter                          Personal
Trigger: You are bloodied by an attack.
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, you deal extra damage equal to your level and Mangrit Modifier.


Fraymotif (lvl 5), gain the following power:
  [ S]: Wake
No Action – Encounter                         Personal
Trigger: You are bloodied by an attack, or reduced to 0 HP or lower.
Effect: The enemy who triggered this power and all enemies adjacent to you take damage equal to your level + half the difference between your current and max HP, and are slowed (save ends). Additionally, you regain hit points equal to your bloodied value and end all effects currently affecting you.

This has the potential to deal a Maid's bloodied value + level damage to multiple enemies and slows them, without an attack roll. On top of a free second wind, as a triggered action. That's too much. Possible fixes: Attack roll to deal all that crazy damage, drop the slowing, and have the healing and effect ending as a sure-fire effect. Still powerful, but not auto-hit, and is very situational.
Alternatively, keep the auto hit, But deal damage equal to double your level instead. Keep the slowing effect and all that healing.


Blargh. Tired. And I have to go see about a job later today. Beh.

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #617 on: November 20, 2012, 02:11:57 pm »

What if we changed Lookie! to a Ranged 5 power, and let you choose up to 3 targets? Basically the same problem.

As for Mime's Revenge, I figured adding an additional effect might be a bit much, seeing as how you have the opportunity to use it as what amounts to a free action. True. Still, rather boring.

I kind of want to make a power that either takes advantage of deafened (too situational), or causes deafened and then applies a damage penalty when attacking deafened opponents. But it's 5 in the morning, so I might be dumb. The way handled below, no. Deafened is really lame anyway and almost no reason for it to be used in a HSRPG, tbh.

Dumb idea power (Maybe HONK?)
Standard Action - At will       Melee or Ranged
Target: One enemy in range
Attack: Pul + your level + Weapon Precision vs. AC
Hit: 1[W]+ level +Plc modifier damage and the enemy is deafened until the end of their next turn.
Special: If the enemy was not deafened prior to the attack, this attack deals extra damage equal to your PLC modifier. According to this, you might as well just add the extra damage each time.

Anyway, we've spent a LOT of time on the Bard. We have to address the Maid as well.

The Maid Interacts their Aspect by performing duties in service to it. I dunno about this. How would this be utilized in gameplay? I don't know. Hate to say it, but it probably shouldn't. IMO, the actual roles of the classes in the game do not need to be emulated by the mechanics.

The Maid plays a strong Controller game.

Class Alignment: Unknown but likely passive
Attribute: Mangrit
Skill Bonus: By The Game’s Laws Bound- +4 to Skaian Lore
Traits: Excellent Qualifications- Gain a +1 bonus to your Fortitude, Reflex and Will defenses.
Eternal Service- You do not receive the Dying condition when reduced to 0 HP or lower, and may act as normal. Additionally, you need not roll Death Saving Throws, and are automatically treated as if you had rolled a 10, though you may choose to roll normally instead, with the usual chance of failure. You still die when reduced to your negative bloodied value.

Eternal Service is a HUGE issue. Much too powerful. There are a few ways we can change it. 1: Allow Maids to forgo Death Saves while dying, but slow and weaken them to balance it. 2: Allow dying Maids to act normally, but make them make Death Saves as normal. Second one is better than the first, but either way is still somewhat of a problem. I'd ignore this completely.

Brutal Affront(lvl 2): Crush The(ir) Heart- You deal 1d8 extra damage, and may take 1d8 damage. If you do so, you slide the target up to three squares and immobilize him. (Grave Blunder: You take 1d8 extra damage, and an enemy take 1d6 damage to deal 1d6 damage to you.)
Aggrievements, choose two of the following, later you may choose to gain a third (lvl 8 ) :

 Take Their Place   
Standard action – At-will   Ranged- OR Melee-Kind
Target: One creature
Attack: Mgt + your level + Weapon precision vs. AC
Hit: 1 [W] + Mgt + your level damage.
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, if the target deals damage to an ally within three squares of you, you may, as an immediate interrupt, shift up to three squares to a spot adjacent to the ally and take half the damage the ally would have taken in his stead. If you do so, add Hit: The target has -2 to all you make until the end of your next turn attack rolls until the end of your next turn to any attacks.   

I don't even understand what's going on at the bottom of that text. It should probably be scrapped in any case- As it is, the Maid can force attacks off of her allies and receive half damage from attacks meant for her allies every turn.

Cycle of Revenge
Standard action – At-will         Ranged- OR Melee-Kind
Target: One creature
Attack: Mgt + your level + Weapon Precision  vs. AC
Hit: 1 [W] + Mgt + your level damage, and you and the target are dazed until the end of your next turn.

Unbelievably exploitable, especially against single targets. Slowed or Weakened might be better substitutes, but maybe there are other options that would fit better. Ignore completely, IMO. The idea makes for a very boring attack.

Make Them Pay   
Standard action – At-will      Ranged- OR Melee-Kind
Target: One creature
Attack: Mgt + your level + Weapon precision vs. AC
Hit: 1 [W] + Mgt + level damage.
Effect: Before making the attack, you may spend Hit Points equal to half your level (minimum 1) +1. If the attack hits, you then apply one of the following effects to it:
-The target takes automatic damage equal to twice your level at the start of its turn, and automatic damage equal to twice your level if it ends its turn adjacent to you.
-The target is pushed up to three squares away from you and is slowed (save ends).   

One of the people who commented on the document had this to say:
This is really good and only gets better as the game goes on. Pay 6 HP to deal at a minimum 20 extra damage, and up to 40, on an attack with a perfectly average attack roll and thus not a very large miss chance.
A just under quadruple return from hit point sacrifice is probably too much. We can keep this effect, but we should likely change it from double level damage to just level damage.


 Brave Sacrifice
Immediate Interrupt – Encounter      Close Burst 3
Trigger: An ally is hit by an attack.
Effect: The attack hits you instead, and your ally suffers no ill effects and may immediately make a Basic Aggrievement against the attacker with a bonus to damage equal to your Mangrit modifier and level.


Boon (lvl 3), gain the following power:
  Broken Body, Unbroken Spirit
Free action - Encounter                          Personal
Trigger: You are bloodied by an attack.
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, you deal extra damage equal to your level and Mangrit Modifier.

Never liked this boon. Boring./b]

Fraymotif (lvl 5), gain the following power:
  [ S]: Wake
No Action – Encounter                         Personal
Trigger: You are bloodied by an attack, or reduced to 0 HP or lower.
Effect: The enemy who triggered this power and all enemies adjacent to you take damage equal to your level + half the difference between your current and max HP, and are slowed (save ends). Additionally, you regain hit points equal to your bloodied value and end all effects currently affecting you.

This has the potential to deal a Maid's bloodied value + level damage to multiple enemies and slows them, without an attack roll. On top of a free second wind, as a triggered action. That's too much. Possible fixes: Attack roll to deal all that crazy damage, drop the slowing, and have the healing and effect ending as a sure-fire effect. Still powerful, but not auto-hit, and is very situational.
Alternatively, keep the auto hit, But deal damage equal to double your level instead. Keep the slowing effect and all that healing.


Blargh. Tired. And I have to go see about a job later today. Beh.
My two cents.

Another problem with your Bard: you say the Bard fits best as a Leader, yet your Bard is not very leader-like! Pave the Way is the only ability close to being a Leader ability. My four cents.
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The Fool

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #618 on: November 21, 2012, 09:55:41 am »

I have the next two days off. I'll try to be on Steam when I can. Let me know if the chatlog is happening.
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A Flexible Mind (Suggestion Game)

freeformschooler

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #619 on: November 21, 2012, 10:28:02 am »

I think when Blade was asking "How would this be utilized in gameplay?" he meant "how would this awfully open-ended class interaction work with the Title Power skill" rather than "how can we stat this." The problem with the Maid's interaction is it's maddeningly vague, even moreso than the already vague interactions in other classes.

EDIT: Speaking of Title Power, I found these really excellent posts.

http://g0ggles.tumblr.com/post/29153755952/thief-of-void
http://g0ggles.tumblr.com/post/30093185741/knight-of-mind
http://g0ggles.tumblr.com/post/30531805744/seer-of-space < basically already done
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 11:21:52 am by freeformschooler »
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SirAaronIII

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #620 on: November 21, 2012, 12:53:22 pm »

EDIT: Speaking of Title Power, I found these really excellent posts.

http://g0ggles.tumblr.com/post/29153755952/thief-of-void
http://g0ggles.tumblr.com/post/30093185741/knight-of-mind
http://g0ggles.tumblr.com/post/30531805744/seer-of-space < basically already done
Nifty!

Also, I added what few of you I could find on Steam. If you get an invite from a creepy dude with a John Freeman avatar (okay maybe not creepy but the John Freeman avatar is there), it's just me.
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #621 on: November 28, 2012, 10:51:33 pm »

Okay, from now until we can get the memo together, I'm just having a Bay12stuck memo open whenever I'm on. Show up if you can. Eventually, we should all be on.

Also, we can hash out ideas for the system, take real-time votes on stuff, etc.

Edit: New Bard attack power
Distracting Honk
Standard At-Will      Melee or Range
Target: One enemy
Attack: Weapon Precision + level + Plc vs. Wil
Hit: 1W+Plc+Level damage, and the target grants combat advantage until the end of their next turn.

Blade Master Model 42

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Maids have been nerfed/updated.)
« Reply #622 on: December 01, 2012, 01:02:57 pm »

Okay, until we can do the memo, let's continue in the main thread.

Edit: Moved the Epic Boon section in the document. It is now directly beneath the Aspects. Also, modified the God-Tier as it was in the document.

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #623 on: December 01, 2012, 03:28:27 pm »

Okay, from now until we can get the memo together, I'm just having a Bay12stuck memo open whenever I'm on. Show up if you can. Eventually, we should all be on.

Also, we can hash out ideas for the system, take real-time votes on stuff, etc.

Edit: New Bard attack power
Distracting Honk
Standard At-Will      Melee or Range
Target: One enemy
Attack: Weapon Precision + level + Plc vs. Wil
Hit: 1W+Plc+Level damage, and the target grants combat advantage until the end of their next turn.
This is just about as good as Focused Shot and the target grants CA on a Hit.
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Alternative Bard build... Again.)
« Reply #624 on: December 01, 2012, 03:41:22 pm »

Distracting Honk
Standard At-Will      Melee or Range
Target: One enemy
Attack: Weapon Precision + level + Plc vs. Wil
Hit: 1W+Plc+Level damage, and the target grants combat advantage on the next attack against the target before the end of your next turn.

Finalized Distracting Honk Aggrievement.

Edit: We should consider whether we want to restrict certain armor traits based on armor type (Heavy/Light). It's kinda sucky.

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Maids have been nerfed/updated.)
« Reply #625 on: December 02, 2012, 02:13:12 pm »

Another thing worth discussing: Do we want to drop the specific Fist-kind abstratus, and just let people use any of the other melee abstrati as "unarmed schools"? Fist-kind is underpowered as is, in exchange for the wielder never being apart from their weapon. That's all well and good, but it's hard to separate normal players from their weapons too.

What would happen is we'd remove Fist-kind, and put this in a text box under the melee weapons:

What if I want to just use my fists?
You can. Your hands and feet can be your weapon of choice on the field of battle just as easily as a sword or hammer. Pick a melee weapon abstratus, and designate it as a melee style. You do the same damage, and have the same precision bonus: You're just using your mitts. And feet. And knees. Basically whatever. The way you fight should be reflected in your chosen style.
Precision melee unarmed will use quick, precise strikes, to deal damage over time.
Crushing melee unarmed will make use of haymakers, roundhouse kicks, and other large attacks.
Reaching melee unarmed will be full of lunging attacks, and reaching kicks, to deal damage from a (relative) distance. Unless they're in one-handed modus, of course.
Bladed melee unarmed is a 'round-robin' style, neither possessed of overwhelming strength, accuracy, or special range, but reliable in it's own right.
You can learn new styles when you alchemize new equipment: Just make a new 'weapon', which can be gloves, boots, or nothing at all (you'll still be making a card to represent it), and buy the strife portfolio upgrade trait.

Also, we might restrict people using Fist-kind to specific attributes for it's use, since they do get special benefits. MGT for Reaching and Crushing, ACU for Precision and Bladed.

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Maids have been nerfed/updated.)
« Reply #626 on: December 02, 2012, 03:20:46 pm »

Another thing worth discussing: Do we want to drop the specific Fist-kind abstratus, and just let people use any of the other melee abstrati as "unarmed schools"? Fist-kind is underpowered as is, in exchange for the wielder never being apart from their weapon. That's all well and good, but it's hard to separate normal players from their weapons too.

What would happen is we'd remove Fist-kind, and put this in a text box under the melee weapons:

What if I want to just use my fists?
You can. Your hands and feet can be your weapon of choice on the field of battle just as easily as a sword or hammer. Pick a melee weapon abstratus, and designate it as a melee style. You do the same damage, and have the same precision bonus: You're just using your mitts. And feet. And knees. Basically whatever. The way you fight should be reflected in your chosen style.
Precision melee unarmed will use quick, precise strikes, to deal damage over time.
Crushing melee unarmed will make use of haymakers, roundhouse kicks, and other large attacks.
Reaching melee unarmed will be full of lunging attacks, and reaching kicks, to deal damage from a (relative) distance. Unless they're in one-handed modus, of course.
Bladed melee unarmed is a 'round-robin' style, neither possessed of overwhelming strength, accuracy, or special range, but reliable in it's own right.
You can learn new styles when you alchemize new equipment: Just make a new 'weapon', which can be gloves, boots, or nothing at all (you'll still be making a card to represent it), and buy the strife portfolio upgrade trait.

Also, we might restrict people using Fist-kind to specific attributes for it's use, since they do get special benefits. MGT for Reaching and Crushing, ACU for Precision and Bladed.
Either make Fist-kind equal to weapons of the same Precision, or throw it out.
My two cents.
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freeformschooler

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Maids have been nerfed/updated.)
« Reply #627 on: December 04, 2012, 12:16:46 am »

The main reason I wanted to split up from the group again is to speed us up.

Yes, it's cool traveling in a group and having unbelievably awkward shenanigans. However, a person or two is always absent, and with all the flipping around a camp mindlessly for weeks trying to stay together, it's difficult to reach a consensus or get anything done.

Basically I'm not sure the PBP format even works when handling a bunch of people trying to stay together in a group of seven. Let alone in combat if we encounter that.
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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Maids have been nerfed/updated.)
« Reply #628 on: December 09, 2012, 01:43:16 pm »

Took each of the Fraymotifs and converted them into Alchemy Points. Used 1.1 alchemy table since I can't be assed to look up the 1.2 one, but I just know that Ovverclocked and Chilling Insight would get more of a point cost due to Dazing and Stunning going up and all. The ones with Healing too.

Anyway, to conclude, there are some nasty differences in Fraymotifs. Of course, could just be poor Alchemy balancing.
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: Homestuck RPG OOC Thread (Maids have been nerfed/updated.)
« Reply #629 on: December 09, 2012, 03:05:54 pm »

The new alchemy table is in the new doc. I believe there's now a link in the first post in the main thread.

Also, sorry to everyone for the lack of updates. New job, and it's taken a lot out of me, I guess.
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