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Author Topic: [34.07] Dirty sock woes  (Read 6497 times)

Hyndis

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[34.07] Dirty sock woes
« on: April 16, 2012, 12:24:33 pm »

I've figured out a few methods to handle the mountains of dirty laundry my dwarves are generating. So far, my three favorite methods:

1) Bin up all of the dirty clothes and then sell it to the next caravan, so they will take it away and get rid of it for me.

2) Create a stockpile that accepts only clothing and nothing else. Do not allow clothing to be stored anywhere else in the fortress. Every once in a while, when it gets full, mass dump everything. Then go back into the stocks menu and un-dump the bins, to save the bins.

3) Create a stockpile that accepts only clothing and nothing else. Do not allow clothing to be stored anywhere else in the fortress. Add in the refuse option on the stockpile, so it will accept both refuse and clothing. This will cause all clothing to rot away when in the stockpile. You will need to continually produce new clothing, but pig tails are infinitely renewable, you will get highly skilled craftsdwarves.



The problem I have not yet found a solution for is the one of dwarves keeping dirty clothes in their rooms. They will store owned items in their room if they have a room, and there doesn't seem to be any limit to how many items they will store. Even if all cabinets are full they will still keep accumulating more dirty socks until the entire room is covered in dirty socks. I play very long term fortresses, often times 60+ years after embark, with multiple generations of dwarves. This means the accumulating clutter problem is a serious one. If your fort only lasts for a few years, its no big deal, but if a dwarf has been hoarding socks for the past 60 years, things do get out of hand.

If the socks are sitting around on the floor because the dwarf doesn't have a room, after a while ownership gets revoked and they get hauled off to the rotting/dumping/export stockpiles. I'm okay with this.

Problem is that ownership is NOT revoked if they are on the floor in a room the dwarf owns. Clothes will accumulate forever. Some workarounds I've been tinkering with:

1) One possible workaround might be to zone the floor of all bedrooms as a refuse stockpile, but then not allow any items to be stored there. That should trigger the rotting tag for dirty socks, but will not cause hauling jobs to bring junk to the bedrooms. Any socks left on the floor will simply decay on their own.

2) Another solution would be to not give dwarves any rooms, but this will not work, because I enjoy making sure all of my dwarves are well taken care of.

3) A third solution would be to equip every dwarf in armor. Military soldiers who are on duty all the time end up having their clothes completely rotted away to the point that they're wearing only armor and nothing else. Armor is only worn if your soldiers are in the military and because its armor, the clothing rot while being worn isn't triggered. Downside to this is that you need to recruit all dwarves into the military, which might be a pain to do for very large forts.



Of course it might be possible to simply mod out clothing again, but I'd rather not do this. Any suggestions on how to handle the epidemic of dirty socks in your fortresses?
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psychologicalshock

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, 12:28:07 pm »

I have my cloth industry away from the fortress proper but the dirty clothes stockpile close to it so that way the dwarves toss dirty clothes in the one that's closer and take them from the stockpile that's further away, the filthy clothes then get dumped off on the nearest trader.
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Hyndis

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2012, 12:31:48 pm »

Do your dwarves have their own rooms? If nobody has a room they will act like they should, which is hauling dirty clothes to the nearest stockpile to disposal. If they do have a room ownership is never revoked, and clothing only rots if one of two conditions are met;

Either the clothing is being worn on a dwarf, or the clothing is sitting on a refuse stockpile.

If the clothing isn't being worn on a dwarf or isn't sitting in a refuse stockpile, it will never rot away, ever.
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AWdeV

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 01:03:57 pm »

It's not that they get dirty (they do, but a dwarf is content with a bucket of water while he's wearing them), it's that they get tattered and torn.
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Telgin

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2012, 01:28:10 pm »

I find it unfortunate that there are still bugs related to this.  Crossing my fingers that Toady will fix them in another bug fix release or two.

Anyway, zoning a refuse stockpile in the dwarf's room is an interesting workaround.  Can you zone such a stockpile under a cabinet and have the clothes in the cabinet rot away?  I'm going to guess that the game doesn't pay attention to stuff inside cabinets when you do this, but I've been surprised before by things like this.
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ddonohu2

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 01:38:51 pm »

Anyway, zoning a refuse stockpile in the dwarf's room is an interesting workaround.  Can you zone such a stockpile under a cabinet and have the clothes in the cabinet rot away?  I'm going to guess that the game doesn't pay attention to stuff inside cabinets when you do this, but I've been surprised before by things like this.

That and stockpiles don't coexist with buildings.
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Naryar

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 01:45:31 pm »

Yeah dwarves don't seem to bother about washing clothes. The problem is cloth damage, although giving your dwarves access to wells and enough soap is always good.

slothen

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 01:45:38 pm »

I've been doing option 1.  However, it might be possible to combine options 2 & 3.

Make two stockpiles that accept clothes.  The first stockpile should allow bins.  The second stockpile should draw from the first stockpile, not allow bins, and also be a refuse pile.

If you give your dwarves rooms, you might be able to use DF hack to clear ownership, and dwarves won't claim ownership of worn items if they have enough non-worn clothing, so they should take those items on the floor to the stockpiles.
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Hyndis

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2012, 03:23:04 pm »

I find it unfortunate that there are still bugs related to this.  Crossing my fingers that Toady will fix them in another bug fix release or two.

Anyway, zoning a refuse stockpile in the dwarf's room is an interesting workaround.  Can you zone such a stockpile under a cabinet and have the clothes in the cabinet rot away?  I'm going to guess that the game doesn't pay attention to stuff inside cabinets when you do this, but I've been surprised before by things like this.

Two building cannot occupy the same space. So you can have a bed in the middle of a room, and then the rest of the floor zoned as a refuse stockpile.

I've noticed that dwarves will prefer to not drop clothes in the same tile as a piece of furniture for some reason, but sometimes they do that anyways. I've been observing my baron's family. Him and his wife both share the same room, and their clothes have been accumulating all over the floor now that the cabinets are full. There are about 10 items of clothing on the floor not on any furniture tiles, and 1 item of clothing on the same tile as a piece of furniture. There's a definite preference towards favoring empty spaces for clothes storage. Its not a sure thing by any means, but it might catch most of the old clothes and force them to rot away.
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Hyndis

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2012, 03:24:11 pm »

If you give your dwarves rooms, you might be able to use DF hack to clear ownership, and dwarves won't claim ownership of worn items if they have enough non-worn clothing, so they should take those items on the floor to the stockpiles.

I've tried using DF hack with the cleanowned command, but it doesn't seem to work. The other commands in DF hack work fine, but cleanowned just doesn't seem to do anything, or I'm doing it wrong.

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slink

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2012, 03:29:01 pm »

If you give your dwarves rooms, you might be able to use DF hack to clear ownership, and dwarves won't claim ownership of worn items if they have enough non-worn clothing, so they should take those items on the floor to the stockpiles.

I've tried using DF hack with the cleanowned command, but it doesn't seem to work. The other commands in DF hack work fine, but cleanowned just doesn't seem to do anything, or I'm doing it wrong.
It never seemed to work right for me, either.  The clothing got moved to the dump but the ownership tag was never removed.  The result was that as soon as I tried to trade them to a caravan, the owners came to the depot and took them back home.
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Telgin

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2012, 04:46:23 pm »

Anyway, zoning a refuse stockpile in the dwarf's room is an interesting workaround.  Can you zone such a stockpile under a cabinet and have the clothes in the cabinet rot away?  I'm going to guess that the game doesn't pay attention to stuff inside cabinets when you do this, but I've been surprised before by things like this.

That and stockpiles don't coexist with buildings.

Aww, that sucks.  I've never tried it clearly, but I didn't realize stockpiles blocked construction of furniture.  Well, guess we'll have to wait for Toady to get around to fixing this completely.  I'm sure someone has either put this on Mantis or otherwise informed him, but as usual we're at his mercy regarding the timetable of a true fix.
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Hyndis

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2012, 05:08:20 pm »

I have not added a bug report on Mantis about this yet. Also I'm procrastinating on my taxes, so won't have a chance until tomorrow most likely. If anyone wants to beat me to it, feel free. I'll add to it if there is a bug report already created when I get a chance.

I think the easiest fix would be to make it so that any owned item that is not carried/worn, or not stored inside furniture will have its ownership cleared after a while, perhaps a few months. That way even old socks on the floor of a dwarf's bedroom will not stay there forever, but will get hauled away eventually.
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quintilius

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2012, 05:17:39 pm »

have a dorm - then rotate the dwarves through the dorm every time their rooms get too cluttered.  the clothing will lose it's 'owned' tag after 20 days - and then you can assign them a room again
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Hyndis

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Re: [34.07] Dirty sock woes
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2012, 05:20:57 pm »

have a dorm - then rotate the dwarves through the dorm every time their rooms get too cluttered.  the clothing will lose it's 'owned' tag after 20 days - and then you can assign them a room again

Yes, that would work, but its very micromanagement intensive. With large forts of 300+ dwarves it could get a bit tedious.
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