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[Dutchling]

Dexter became a really bad show and anyone who would get the reference is trying to forget it.

I agree in the sense that there were two seasons so far which really sucked (the one with the girl psychopath and the one with the Mexican killer cop) but right now it's back to being awesome.

The only thing more awesome than Dexter is the word awesome. Awesome is awesome. That is also a reference, this time to some youtube guy teaching history.

[Jopax]

Funfact, my friend calls me Dexter, but he's still indecisive if it's Dexter the boy genious or because of Dexter the psychopath :>

[Dutchling]

Ah, that reminds me of the second thing more awesome than Dexter the psychopath. Dexter the genius of course. I've had dozens of fantasies of being Dexter (the kid) and killing Deedee in various ways. God, she was annoying.

[Capntastic]

Dexter became a really bad show and anyone who would get the reference is trying to forget it.

Dexter is awesome.

It had good moments and season 1 and 4 were pretty solid, but then the writers basically had no idea what to do so the show became a garbled mess.  Like House, like Heroes, like LOST, the people making the show lost track of what made the show good and began flailing for ideas, while simultaneously stagnating by eliminating any repercussions to actions that should otherwise be total gamechangers.  I could go on, but Dexter just isn't a good show at all at this point.

Edit:  Remember that thing where Dexter straight up

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

kills the wrong dude and sort of just shrugs it off, despite it breaking the code in a huge way?  And how Dexter's code has been drilled into the show as a thematic and plot guideline since the start of the show?  And nothing really happened??  That was pretty bad!  Also when Dexter killed the dude at a gas station for basically no reason, out of anger, etc.  The show lost its path pretty harshly.

[kaijyuu]

When stuff like that happens in shows I like, I just pretend it never happened and only the good stuff really exists. No need to throw the whole show in the trash, just parts of it.

[Darvi]

They're just douchebags,

I resent that.

[MorleyDev]

Anti-Social Personality Disorder is just a checklist for criminality. It's a joke of a condition and should be stripped from all medical and psychological journals.

The Factor-1 criteria for Hare's Psychopathy Checklist stand up much better in terms of a "Psychopathic personality": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist:

Factor 1: Personality
Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
Callousness; lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Whilst it's said a psychopath will score high in factor 1 and factor 2, I'd still say that's trying to conflate criminality with personality and really criminality and personality (psychopathy vs criminality) should be considered two separate concepts entirely with merely some correlation.

I'll admit I still dislike some aspects of Factor 1. "superficial charm" is different from regular charm how exactly? Is it superficial because they aren't expressing their real feelings? But isn't that just more signs of pathological lying? And if it's superficial because it's "the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile"...isn't that just called, ya know: Charm?

If someone likes you, they'll say you're charming. If they don't, they'll say you're glib. It's too subjective to take seriously as a criteria.

So yeah, some of these concepts seem stupid to me but still...it's like how is a lack of guilt any different to a lack of fear? Guilt is often just a fear you'll be caught and suffer punishment, is it not? Can anybody define a real difference between the two? A lot of the things I read, it seems like people are trying to describe something when they don't understand what they are trying to say it's different from.

The research is faulty, the concepts are broken and as such any understanding or meaning is found wanting.

[kaijyuu]

Guilt is just a fear you'll be caught and suffer punishment, is it not?

Um, no? Not at all?

Guilt is remorse. Regretting actions due to the consequences (and not necessarily the consequences that affect oneself) and/or no longer thinking the motivations justified. Has nothing to do with getting caught, since guilt is obviously possible after facing the full consequences.



Though yes I also think the normal classifications are silly. If I want to get specific on this topic I just classify by empathy (for none, for everyone, and everywhere inbetween). Being a manipulative sadistic jackass is not inherent to not caring about other people.

[MorleyDev]

Has nothing to do with getting caught, since guilt is obviously possible after facing the full consequences.

So worry you haven't faced the full consequences and they'll be more, that what you've done will still have unpleasant social impacts you'll have to deal with for time to come? Or that you're "damned" somehow (if you believe in such a thing) as a result of your actions?

Edit:  Remember that thing where Dexter straight up

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

kills the wrong dude and sort of just shrugs it off, despite it breaking the code in a huge way?  And how Dexter's code has been drilled into the show as a thematic and plot guideline since the start of the show?  And nothing really happened??  That was pretty bad!  Also when Dexter killed the dude at a gas station for basically no reason, out of anger, etc.  The show lost its path pretty harshly.

Actually some things like this happen in the books too. He strays from the code a lot. The point of the code isn't supposed to be "right or wrong", it's "feed your urges and don't get caught". The show lost it's way because it keeps forgetting this.

Dexter was never supposed to be a good guy, or in complete control of himself. There's that brilliant scene in the book where he's compelled, despite not having done his research or prepared properly, to go and kill someone. He tries to control it but he isn't in the driving seat any more, his wants and needs are and someone will die that night. He just has to steer himself to not doing it in too stupid a way.

The show just forgot it was dealing with a "psychopath with homicidal urges" and started treating Dexter as a "schizoid with homicidal urges" somewhere during the second season. I still watch it, but it's lost a lot of appeal for me. I don't want to watch Dexter become a real boy.

[mainiac]

Edit:  Remember that thing where Dexter straight up

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

kills the wrong dude and sort of just shrugs it off, despite it breaking the code in a huge way?  And how Dexter's code has been drilled into the show as a thematic and plot guideline since the start of the show?  And nothing really happened??  That was pretty bad!  Also when Dexter killed the dude at a gas station for basically no reason, out of anger, etc.  The show lost its path pretty harshly.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The killing at the gas station wasn't for no reason.  Dexter was mourning his wife and the dude was insulting her memory.  There's two important things to remember here.

First is that while Dexter is psychopathic he isn't completely psychopathic.  He probably wouldn't even be a sociopath if Harry hadn't prevented him from getting the treatment he needed as a child.  This is established slightly better in the books where Dexter has a very strong affinity for children but has little remorse about adults because he see's adults as the source of all problems (his especially, major mommy issues).  But in the show it's establish in for instance in why he chooses Deborah over Brian, in the way he explains his social value to Doakes.  Dexter thinks he is a complete sociopath and to a degree even tricks himself but he isn't and has actually been showing a slow but consistent trend to reduced psychopathy.

Secondly is more obvious, he is a very violent person who is very quick to act on his violent impulses.  While most people wouldn't murder someone over such treatment, Dexter isn't normal people.  Him killing that man was like a small child killing someone out of anger.  It wasn't the depth of the transgression, it was that the killer had so little restraining him.

The killed an innocent man thing I don't have a defense for.  Sometimes a tv show sets up arcs that it ends up not being able to handle satisfactorily due to bad planning.

I very much doubt the OP is a sociopath.  The mere fact that he seems offended by his mother's treatment indicates that he places intrinsic value in  his relationships with other people.  What seems far more likely is that he is what psychologists call a "teenager".  The teenage sense of empathy is less well developed which completely explains the OP's affinity for antisocial behavior and his belief in his own psychopathy.  The good news is that nearly 100% of persons suffering from teenagerism make a full recovery over a 10 year period.

I don't want to watch Dexter become a real boy.

I'm very much on the fence on this point myself.  While I don't want him to be Mary Sue'd, I do like character development.  I can see justification for the ways the character has evolved, I am just worried that he could grow into something stale.

[kaijyuu]

Has nothing to do with getting caught, since guilt is obviously possible after facing the full consequences.

So worry you haven't faced the full consequences and they'll be more, that what you've done will still have unpleasant social impacts you'll have to deal with for time to come? Or that you're "damned" somehow (if you believe in such a thing) as a result of your actions?

The best way to put it I guess is that guilt IS a consequence. It has nothing to do with further consequences like social pressures or damnation or anything like that. It is a negative emotion stemming from regret of previous actions. It is a pain, not the fear of other pains.



EDIT: This is sort of like explaining what salt tastes like so I'll just give a hypothetical example.

Atheist, rich guy, lied murdered and stole to get there.
Free of all possible consequences for whatever reason; all suspicion gone, no chance of people finding out, etc.
Previous actions haunt him, perhaps even to the point of using his wealth to "make up for it" or turning himself in.

That is guilt.

[mainiac]

The best way to put it I guess is that guilt IS a consequence.

Nicely said.

[GalenEvil]

I can say that I do not feel guilt about the things that I do, and I don't fear consequences in any way. People do as I ask and when they don't I make them regret it eventually... spiteful I am, probably. If I get into any sort of trouble I talk my way out of it as best I can and that usually works quite nicely. Violence isn't necessary, but not a forbidden reaction, in most circumstances and there have been times when it has come to it, including when guns were pulled on me...

I am happy to see that this essentially became ITT Dexter discussion. I could probably make some correlation between myself and Dexter, but I am much too tired. Killing little animals will do that to ya tho >.>

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

they are rabbits that I raise for meat... better than paying for super processed and hormone filled meats at a supermarket...

GalenEvil

[Neonivek]

Most sociopaths are not murderers anyhow in the same way the vast majority of psychopaths are not murders.

Also a psychopath isn't something close to what you would be as a psychopath has a psychosis. What is your psychosis? that your a jerk? That at most would be a Neurosis.

Unless of course you had no mother... in which case yes... you are a huge psychopath.

[Lord Dullard]

I really doubt you're a sociopath. I think it sounds more like you're just wanting to project yourself as a sociopath because it seems 'cool' and you have an idea that it would make you seem intimidating and/or enigmatic.

Truth is, I doubt a real sociopath would go on an internet forum and proclaim themselves to be such. In fact, I suspect most people who are true sociopaths don't actually understand that they're sociopaths and probably believe that their perception of the world is the more normal one.