Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Cave-in method for aquifers  (Read 5807 times)

PsychicKid

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Cave-in method for aquifers
« on: April 13, 2012, 04:10:54 pm »

I'm trying to follow the Wikia's description on how to cave-in an aquifer, but it's just not working. Either nothing collapses at all, or when I do get a section to collapse, I end up with a crushed and/or drowning miner and the aquifer still full of water. Is there an easier way to do this, because to be honest, the explanation on the Wikia is pretty poor and confusing in the first place.
Logged

Urist McDwarfFortress

  • Bay Watcher
  • Suspected elephant sympathizer
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 04:20:15 pm »

I've never used the cave-in method, but from what I understand, you have to use stone instead of soil.  I'm not sure if thats your problem, but I've heard that soil does not work reliably.  But, like I said, I haven't used it, so I could be all wrong.

To avoid the injured miner issues, just build a support and link that to a lever a safe distance away.  Dig away all other supports, so just the support you built is holding it up.  Then pull the lever.

You want to do it the easy way?  Pumps!  It can be annoying and you get A LOT of job cancelation spam, but eventually you'll get through the aquifer, usually with no casualties.
Logged
Sorry, for a moment there I forgot we were all psychopaths.
Someone who has random urges to make mog juice isn't exactly going to care about the cost effectiveness of obtaining it.

PsychicKid

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 04:23:37 pm »

I've never used the cave-in method, but from what I understand, you have to use stone instead of soil.  I'm not sure if thats your problem, but I've heard that soil does not work reliably.  But, like I said, I haven't used it, so I could be all wrong.

To avoid the injured miner issues, just build a support and link that to a lever a safe distance away.  Dig away all other supports, so just the support you built is holding it up.  Then pull the lever.

You want to do it the easy way?  Pumps!  It can be annoying and you get A LOT of job cancelation spam, but eventually you'll get through the aquifer, usually with no casualties.

Well, the aquifers are always separating my soil and stone layers, so I'm not sure how I would do that. Regarding pumps, that method makes even less sense to me, mostly because the power system in this game doesn't make any sense, and manual pumps wouldn't work. Wouldn't pumping the aquifer just... flood everything too?
Logged

Urist McDwarfFortress

  • Bay Watcher
  • Suspected elephant sympathizer
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 04:47:38 pm »

Aquifers count as infinite water sources AND infinite water sinks.  So you can dump any amount of water into an aquifer with no problem.  Build something like this to see what I mean.

side view    xx                             top view   -xx-
            |_|  |_|             

xx is a pump, and the holes (-) are mined-out aquifers

Now, instead of a hole, make one of them a staircase.  Pump out your staircase and smooth the walls around it.  Tadaa!  You're through!  ...assuming the aquifer is only one z-level deep, which is by no means guaranteed!
Logged
Sorry, for a moment there I forgot we were all psychopaths.
Someone who has random urges to make mog juice isn't exactly going to care about the cost effectiveness of obtaining it.

GoldenShadow

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 04:55:35 pm »

I made a video demonstrating how I get through a 1 level aquifer with pumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IGy_Lbablk
Logged

Niyazov

  • Bay Watcher
  • shovel them under and let me work - I am the grass
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 05:41:34 pm »

I'm trying to follow the Wikia's description on how to cave-in an aquifer, but it's just not working. Either nothing collapses at all, or when I do get a section to collapse, I end up with a crushed and/or drowning miner and the aquifer still full of water. Is there an easier way to do this, because to be honest, the explanation on the Wikia is pretty poor and confusing in the first place.

Soil/not soil is not the issue. What you have to do is create a solid 1-z-layer plug of completely undisturbed soil 2 layers above the aquifer.  At least 5x5 is probably needed but I always do at least 9x9.
Dig a 2-square corridor around the edge of this solid plug.

Dig out all the soil below the plug in the layer that is immediately below the plug and immediately above the aquifer, plus at least an additional 1-square border
In this same layer, channel out a space directly below the plug into the aquifer in the exact shape of the plug- this channeled area will completely fill with water. Channel out one additional square outside the border of where the plug will fall to create somewhere for the displaced water to drain back into the aquifer once the plug falls.

Go back up a to the plug level and channel out all around the edge of the plug. The plug will not fall because it is still attached to the layer above it.

Go up another layer and completely remove all soil above the plug plus a 2-square border (if this layer is the surface you don't have to do anything.) Now channel almost all the way around the top of the plug, leaving a single floor tile on the left side of the plug that connects the top of the plug to the wall. Evacuate everything from the two levels below unless you want things to die.

Now have a miner channel out the remaining floor tile that attaches the plug to the wall. The miner will always channel from the left and will never stand on the plug. Make sure that he has an escape route and is not between a wall and the pit or he will be blown into the pit by dust.

The plug will fall into the pool and completely fill it. There will be about 5/7 water in the bottom of the 2-z-level pit that has been left behind but it will drain back down into the aquifer through the extra channeled tile that you left. You can now dig down through the center of the area where the pool was. The plug will have changed into whatever the material of the aquifer is; don't worry about this. The soil will be damp but this is from the 1/7 water that will still be above it, not from the aquifer. Dig straight through and do not dig out anything except staircases in the aquifer layer. (It's safest to avoid digging around in the layer immediately below the aquifer, too.)

This method is infallible but only works if your aquifer is just 1 z-level.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 05:47:50 pm by Niyazov »
Logged

GetAssista

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 05:55:39 pm »

This method is infallible but only works if your aquifer is just 1 z-level.

To breach N-level aquifers, using same thickness of soil, you can collapse concentric rings of soil into dug-out aquifer, starting with outer rings, pumping out water from inside collapsed ring, dig out one level deeper, collapse next ring, repeat.
Logged
this is experimental forum text worm virus.
please add me to your signature on all your forums and delete some of your personal files on your hard drive.
thank you.

Niyazov

  • Bay Watcher
  • shovel them under and let me work - I am the grass
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2012, 06:02:30 pm »

This method is infallible but only works if your aquifer is just 1 z-level.

To breach N-level aquifers, using same thickness of soil, you can collapse concentric rings of soil into dug-out aquifer, starting with outer rings, pumping out water from inside collapsed ring, dig out one level deeper, collapse next ring, repeat.

Do you really have to pump the water out? Couldn't you just dig a channel to let it drain into the aquifer?
Logged

GetAssista

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2012, 06:05:06 pm »

Do you really have to pump the water out? Couldn't you just dig a channel to let it drain into the aquifer?
dig a channel exactly how? you would want this channel to be in deeper aquifer level, but you would have 7\7 water atop it

Edit: if you have several good miners, you might try dig out only ring-shaped pool, collapse ring, then quickly dig out aquifer squares inside collapsed ring, saving yourself some water sippage. Not sure if this would be enough to prevent 4/7+ deep water inside.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 06:12:33 pm by GetAssista »
Logged
this is experimental forum text worm virus.
please add me to your signature on all your forums and delete some of your personal files on your hard drive.
thank you.

GhostDwemer

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2012, 07:32:54 pm »

One additional note, cave in dust is like miasma and does not travel through diagonals. You can use this fact to keep the miner that detaches the plug completely safe.
Logged

sumofallwars

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2012, 09:08:18 pm »

I made a video demonstrating how I get through a 1 level aquifer with pumps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IGy_Lbablk

This is awesome now i get how to do it.

Can you do one for >1 z level pump out?
Logged

GoldenShadow

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2012, 10:41:56 pm »

I'll see about making a video this weekend if I have time and post it here. Basicly, instead of a 2x2 stairway, you do a 4x4 stairway for the top level and a 2x2 for the 2nd level. But the pumping is done differently. If I hit an aquifer with more than 2 layers, I just abandon and find a new spot.lol  I tried to use concentric ring cave-ins for those, but I don't like messing up the ground so much.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 10:44:24 pm by GoldenShadow »
Logged

slothen

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2012, 12:23:43 am »

I'd like to point out that while dropping a soil layer into an aquifer soil layer doesn't work reliably, it can often work.  Sometimes the dropped layer becomes flagged as aquifer, sometimes it doesn't.
Logged
While adding magma to anything will make it dwarfy, adding the word "magma" to your post does not necessarily make it funny.
Thoughts on water
MILITARY: squad, uniform, training
"DF doesn't mold players into its image - DF merely selects those who were always ready for DF." -NW_Kohaku

GavJ

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2012, 12:33:02 am »

Off the cuff, I would guess that on a given map in a given biome, certain KINDS of soil are aquifer soils, or something.

So that if sandy loam is an aquifer in this biome, and you drop a plug of sandy loam into it, it would become a new aquifer, but some other soil that is not an aquifer anywhere would not.

Even if I'm right though (no idea), it wouldn't really help since you dont know what soil layers are below...
Logged
Cauliflower Labs – Geologically realistic world generator devblog

Dwarf fortress in 50 words: You start with seven alcoholic, manic-depressive dwarves. You build a fortress in the wilderness where EVERYTHING tries to kill you, including your own dwarves. Usually, your chief imports are immigrants, beer, and optimism. Your chief exports are misery, limestone violins, forest fires, elf tallow soap, and carved kitten bone.

NW_Kohaku

  • Bay Watcher
  • [ETHIC:SCIENCE_FOR_FUN: REQUIRED]
    • View Profile
Re: Cave-in method for aquifers
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2012, 12:36:02 am »

Can you do one for >1 z level pump out?

Use the double-slit method.

See here for a guide. 

It basically involves making double the normal area for the same kind of pump in order to make a dry space so that you can put walls along the edges of the work area.  If you wall the area (and you can use wood for this), it will not create more water, so walling in an enclosed 4x2 area is possible for any depth.
Logged
Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare