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Author Topic: quick noob question - traps  (Read 1399 times)

Beane666

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quick noob question - traps
« on: April 12, 2012, 03:44:37 pm »

Do traps only spring on hostiles?

ie, can a caravan/stray animals/dwarfs all walk among a trapped area safely?
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MenacesWithSpikes

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2012, 03:47:24 pm »

Do traps only spring on hostiles?

ie, can a caravan/stray animals/dwarfs all walk among a trapped area safely?

If a dwarf becomes unconscious while standing on a trap, the trap will trigger against the dwarf.

Fighting on top of traps can be dangerous...
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Garath

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 04:05:10 pm »

tame animals and caravans do not trigger traps
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floundericiousWA

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 04:09:51 pm »

Yep, tame animals, anything not "wild" or "savage" or "hostile" should not spring a trap...

DO NOT BE LAX about trap-safety, though...kobolds and goblin thieves can walk right through traps.  You need sacrificial guard animals positioned to spot the little sneaks...once they're revealed, they wait a second or two and then flee.
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Starver

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 04:10:51 pm »

If they're cage traps, not so much,  Though inconvenient[1], and you have to make sure your cage-haulers (or good samaritans/medical personnel) aren't going to wander to the place where someone who had just knocked your defender unconscious may still be hanging about.


Anyway, as to the original question, AFAIK it's just hostiles (without [TRAPAVOID] in their particular genetic makeup) and anything that goes unconscious (including [TRAPAVOID] creatures, so if you can engineer a bit of beddy-byes for such a creature while in the middle of a cage-field...  Result!)


[1] Could be a life-saver, though.  As long as they aren't in need of immediate medical attention, being in a cage should stop them from being killed whilst unconscious.  Retrieve and build their cage, ASAP, and officially release them and some bad thoughts (and their pre-existing medical conditions) seem like a preferable alternative to them having been killed outright.  As and when Adventurers can spring themselves from cage traps, I could even see choosing to fight upon the spot where one is set up (that they would otherwise not trigger) as being a viable life-saver.  But there's a lot of 'if's in that particular scenario. ;)
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Leafsnail

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 04:32:29 pm »

Yep, tame animals, anything not "wild" or "savage" or "hostile" should not spring a trap...

DO NOT BE LAX about trap-safety, though...kobolds and goblin thieves can walk right through traps.  You need sacrificial guard animals positioned to spot the little sneaks...once they're revealed, they wait a second or two and then flee.
I've had goblin thieves caught in cages and diced by serrated blades before.  I think only goblin master thieves have trap avoid maybe?
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Garath

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2012, 04:40:21 pm »

don't think so, but kobolds do and somehow those tiny things can do massive damage. Dogpiled by 7 wardogs, most manage to kill one and cripple another.
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Sphalerite

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2012, 06:01:48 pm »

Kobolds have TRAPAVOID, so kobolds will never trigger traps.  Goblins do not have TRAPAVOID.  Goblin thieves and ambushers will trigger traps, even if they're hidden.

Also, animals which were tamed, but which have reverted back to being wild, will also still not trigger traps.  They forget to be tame, but not where the traps were.  Be careful.
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rtg593

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2012, 06:03:50 pm »

Kobolds have TRAPAVOID, so kobolds will never trigger traps.  Goblins do not have TRAPAVOID.  Goblin thieves and ambushers will trigger traps, even if they're hidden.

Also, animals which were tamed, but which have reverted back to being wild, will also still not trigger traps.  They forget to be tame, but not where the traps were.  Be careful.

They also retain any war training, Toady mentioned. So be doubly careful ;-)
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Starver

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2012, 07:50:23 pm »

Goblin thieves and ambushers will trigger traps, even if they're hidden.
You remind me of one particular (40d) fortress I had, where for an extended period of time I'd be getting a "Goblin thief spotted" alert fairly regularly and often as a few dispersed 'out in the wilds' cagetraps were triggered, capturing said thief before he/she got anywhere near my actual gates.  It helped that (although separated by ten or twenty tiles distance, between them) they led out in a straight line away from the gate towards the edge of the map.  The routing of the hostile thief, from most places on the edge of the map, seemed to send them diagonally onto the orthogonal path that crossed all remaining traps (and, eventually, the one at the gate itself as a catch-all).  And then some dwarf would wander out and collect the full cage, and I think I was then planning great fun with the captives.

Erm, that's a sort of illustrative example.  Time may have changed some of the AI and behaviour.  And I think the OP question has been answered by now, and this may not even add anything.

(Except...  There's apparently something about Megabeasts that are native to the embark area seem to be trap-immune, but ones that wander onto the site aren't?  Or I might be misremembering something...)
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wierd

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2012, 07:56:55 pm »

Kobolds have TRAPAVOID, so kobolds will never trigger traps.  Goblins do not have TRAPAVOID.  Goblin thieves and ambushers will trigger traps, even if they're hidden.

Also, animals which were tamed, but which have reverted back to being wild, will also still not trigger traps.  They forget to be tame, but not where the traps were.  Be careful.

Not completely true.

1) they can be caught by dodging into a trap.
2) they can be caught by falling into a trap (such as via a fallaway bridge floor)
3) they can be washed into a trap.

Otherwise? Totally immune.
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floundericiousWA

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 08:59:23 pm »

Do kobolds weigh enough to trigger pressure plates?  You could use that to trigger retracting bridges over weapon or cage traps
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Talvieno

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2012, 09:18:29 pm »

You need sacrificial guard animals positioned to spot the little sneaks
Not true. It doesn't have to be "sacrificial". Look up the F.R.O.G. in the "What's going on in your fort?" thread. Basically, it's a turkey tied to a stick, above the entrance, over grates. Impossible to hit by enemies, yet it still detects them walking beneath. It won't die, it's reusable, and it's just about failsafe (if you install more than one, especially).

EDIT: Got the link for you.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15096.msg3017692#msg3017692
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 09:23:30 pm by Talvieno »
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Sphalerite

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2012, 09:24:58 pm »

Kobolds have TRAPAVOID, so kobolds will never trigger traps.  Goblins do not have TRAPAVOID.  Goblin thieves and ambushers will trigger traps, even if they're hidden.

Also, animals which were tamed, but which have reverted back to being wild, will also still not trigger traps.  They forget to be tame, but not where the traps were.  Be careful.

Not completely true.

1) they can be caught by dodging into a trap.
2) they can be caught by falling into a trap (such as via a fallaway bridge floor)
3) they can be washed into a trap.

Also, a kobold will trigger a trap if it falls unconscious, or is caught in webbing.  So they'll only never trigger traps while walking normally under their own power and not passing out.  However, you won't normally have any of those other things happening without first knowing the kobold is there.

Do kobolds weigh enough to trigger pressure plates?  You could use that to trigger retracting bridges over weapon or cage traps

TRAPAVOID also works against pressure plates.  So a kobold won't trigger them (unless stunned, or webbed, or unconscious, or falling off a bridge, etc...)
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wierd

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Re: quick noob question - traps
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2012, 09:53:22 pm »

There are a couple was to do it, such as using some other creature as the plate trigger.

See for instance:

You have a really long trap hallway. The kobold misses all the traps while sneaking in.

The final line of defense is made to catch fleeing creatures (snatchers, kobolds).  It is comprised of a bridge that is about 10 tiles long, a row of pressure plates that drop the bridge, and then a pen/pasture full of war dogs.

The kobold sneaks in, misses all the traps, crosses the bridge, avoids the pressure plate, and gets detected by the dogs.  The dogs aren't chained, just penned.  This way they can chase the kobold.

The kobold makes a nonsense utterance, bugs out, and tries to run away.  It turns back around, and heads across the bridge, avoiding the pressureplates.  The dogs chasing it however, trip the plates.  Kobolds are fast little things. He should already be on the bridge by the time the dog hits the plate. This means the bridge falls away underneath him, dropping him into the traps below.

No more kobold. 

The dog returns to his pen, hitting the plate again, and resetting the bridge.

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