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[Broseph Stalin]

This.


You know, when it comes right down to it, the graphics don't really scare potential players away at all. It's all the game mechanics. Even if the game had incredible graphics, it'd be the child-killing, kitten slaughtering and ridiculous amounts of gore that gave people that    moment. And, quite frankly, I wouldn't have Toady change it for anything.

I really don't know about that, I mean when you hear about something being violent and absurd out of context (Quentin Tarentino's entire career) it actually draws you in to learn more. What put me off the two times before DF finally took was the interface and graphics.

[Masta Crouton]

Graphics have been a bigger factor than anything I've seen.  But then if people can't look past the graphics, chances are they can't fully utilize the game either.

Also I'm curious as to how many people play DF but have never been on the forums...

What is an untainted fortress like, free of the blight the community encourages?

dead due to goblins/cave-in/HFS/tantrum spiral.

[AWdeV]

Graphics have been a bigger factor than anything I've seen.  But then if people can't look past the graphics, chances are they can't fully utilize the game either.

Also I'm curious as to how many people play DF but have never been on the forums...

What is an untainted fortress like, free of the blight the community encourages?

dead due to goblins/cave-in/HFS/tantrum spiral.

Doubt it. Those can be mastered as well and I've never had a single tantrum spiral so far. They're avoidable.

[Broseph Stalin]

Graphics have been a bigger factor than anything I've seen.  But then if people can't look past the graphics, chances are they can't fully utilize the game either.

Also I'm curious as to how many people play DF but have never been on the forums...

What is an untainted fortress like, free of the blight the community encourages?

I played for a while before I came to the boards. My fortresses were 3x3 paths carved into cliffs with a 5x5 blister for a trading posts entire z levels created for all purpose stockpiles in the absence of bins, barrels, or organization and a dormitory. All of them. They were absurdly boring and almost never lasted to the first caravan.

[Babylon]

Graphics have been a bigger factor than anything I've seen.  But then if people can't look past the graphics, chances are they can't fully utilize the game either.

Also I'm curious as to how many people play DF but have never been on the forums...

What is an untainted fortress like, free of the blight the community encourages?

I dunno, the game is HARD to learn, it didn't take me long on the wiki before I joined the forums.

[runlvlzero]

I don't know about all 10 pages of this thread, but:

I wouldn't say disgust is the greatest reaction in the slightest. Fascination is the greatest reaction.

Most people with the capability to unzip the file and check it out on their own are probably totally fascinated at this wonderful world Toady gave them absolute and complete control over. Most games don't let you decide anything and have you on rails. That's what is compelling about dwarf fortress to me.

That's before mods, if you take a look at mods like Genesis, Masterwork fortress, and wasteland, you can really begin to see 'how deep' the 'rabbit hole' goes into wonderland...

As far as hard, Its only about as hard as a really good flight sim. Its more tedious with micromanagement then hard to understand or wrap your head around the simulation concepts.

I continue to be fascinated by the new scenarios I discover and all the stories and narrative being produced.

[Toady One]

I'm going to clean up the derails later tonight, but until then, I'd advise people not to add to them.  Warnings and other necessary actions will also be taken at that time.

[Corai]

One, so this is Toady's account....


Two, thank god I stopped joining those.

[Conrad]

A few friends and I were sitting together, getting a round of games in after one of our exams.

Him: "What are you doing there?"
Me : "I'm expecting a siege soon, getting the butcher shops, soaping industry and food stockpiles expanded real quick."
Him: "In case they block your supply of food and soap?"
Me : "What? No, I changed a line or two in ethics file. I churn the sieges into meat and soap. It's great because I get to use their bones as ammunition or to decorate all the mugs I export. Once I tan their skins into leather and weave their hair into thread, I can probably forgo setting up a cloth industry in favor of mass slaughter."
Everyone goes silent.
Him: "You're joking, right?"

You know, unless you understand the game, you don't really realize how useful being able to butcher your enemies can be. You can feed and clothe your children with the skins of the enemies, supply your hospital with plenty of thread and soap and produce enough bone decorations to buy anything else you need. Perfect for Fortress Defense.

EDIT: Apparently "forgo" is spelled forgo and not forego. Guess that makes sense.

[Naryar]

A few friends and I were sitting together, getting a round of games in after one of our exams.

Him: "What are you doing there?"
Me : "I'm expecting a siege soon, getting the butcher shops, soaping industry and food stockpiles expanded real quick."
Him: "In case they block your supply of food and soap?"
Me : "What? No, I changed a line or two in ethics file. I churn the sieges into meat and soap. It's great because I get to use their bones as ammunition or to decorate all the mugs I export. Once I tan their skins into leather and weave their hair into thread, I can probably forego setting up a cloth industry in favor of mass slaughter."
Everyone goes silent.
Him: "You're joking, right?"

You know, unless you understand the game, you don't really realize how useful being able to butcher your enemies can be. You can feed and clothe your children with the skins of the enemies, supply your hospital with plenty of thread and soap and produce enough bone decorations to buy anything else you need. Perfect for Fortress Defense.

People don't just understand the values of good old cold pragmatism.

Arguably my sentient-butchering fort is swimming in meat and has food stocks for at least 30 years, but drink stocks for one year at most, but still. *Kobold meat roast* ! It's such tender, tender meat !

[Broseph Stalin]

People don't just understand the values of good old cold pragmatism.

Arguably my sentient-butchering fort is swimming in meat and has food stocks for at least 30 years, but drink stocks for one year at most, but still. *Kobold meat roast* ! It's such tender, tender meat !

Your sense of right and wrong generally lasts until your first catsplosion.

[runlvlzero]

Most people are pointing out the reactions other people are having to the way in which the game is played by a specific individual (themselves). That reaction is relevant, but is not the same as an un-biased reaction to dwarf fortress itself. No one makes anyone play this game in a certain way, that is something that seems to be missing in allot of the mental throughput of this thread, which kinda makes me sad.

I think the thread should be re-titled "The WORST reaction YOU have managed to garner from YOUR mindless sycophants.

On another note the reactions people are pointing out are more like the kind of un-enlightened bigots have towards other cultures. It goes even farther because its all virtual, its all in someones head, nothing actual is going on other then electronic bits getting flipped like a calculator. I think the majority of people can actually even understand this. So its unfair to dramatize those reactions over the more positive ones. To be honest I wouldn't associate with people who felt physical disgust at that kind of subject matter in a book, or thesis on philosophy.

My own mother would be proud of me if I bothered to edit the raws for ethical behavior that served the greater good =P

[Malorn]

It's strange, I really don't follow the hive-mind-of-hatred-and-death view of the forums.  Maybe I'm too kind to see it, or perhaps I just have a stronger divide between games and life than most.  Extensive D&D playing might also be involved, in that I've had the same number of options (let's be honest, more options), in other gaming situations. 

Most of the things cited as 'horrific' are merely practical.  More than that, they are not purely fantasy.  Mermaid farms may seem horrid, but why are they more horrid than your average beef factory?  What I find enjoyable is the fantasy setting.  How many people get to spend hours designing a mermaid harvesting facility?   The fact that it often ends with 'mild to moderate flooding' . . . that's !fun!.

[rtg593]

You know, when it comes right down to it, the graphics don't really scare potential players away at all. It's all the game mechanics. Even if the game had incredible graphics, it'd be the child-killing, kitten slaughtering and ridiculous amounts of gore that gave people that    moment. And, quite frankly, I wouldn't have Toady change it for anything.

Ya... If this game had actual graphics, I can't think of any store, physical or virtual, that would sell this, lol. I mean, it's basically Hostel, Saw, Hellraiser, and any other torture fest rolled together into a game, and then given sandbox open-ended-ness, lol. Pretty sure countries would ban it...

This game rocks :p

[Masta Crouton]

but see, while of course, many players (myself included) relish wanton death and cruelty, most of the time, that isn't the goal. it's done, say, to save the lives of the many. that's what makes it, well, not like a torture fest movie, where it's done to shock the viewer. here, it's a necessary evil.

sure, losing is fun. but staving off losing is more fun, IMO.