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[Ehndras]

Jesus christ. That Terran upspike is my fault, haha. But the Summerdale upspike, HOLY SHIET.

[Ehndras]

It's important to realize that "Pagan", in BattleMaster, has absolutely nothing to do with the word's modern connotations. It simply means you follow one of the myriad belief systems that does not yet have a formally founded religion in the game.

Indeed, one could found a religion in BattleMaster that closely mimicked many of modern paganism's beliefs, and many BattleMaster characters who are "pagans" actually follow well-structured religions that just don't happen to have an official in-game presence on their continent.

That's the meaning of the modern name as well, unless you're going for Christian connotations in which case it changes meaning completely.

In my experience, these days when people describe themselves as "pagan", they mean that they follow some sort of polytheistic, nature-centric belief system with a vaguely Celtic feel to it.

It's possible that I've just happened to encounter a particular slice of the population As always, YMMV.

Depends really, but yeah. You've probably met some pansy Wiccans, a 'nature-friendly' super-hippyish neo-pagan revivalist religion that tends to be the first-step of many a silly teenager getting into pagan and neo-pagan belief systems. Ah, fresh converts, they are always so fervent... And ridiculous...

I know many Asatru - pretty much a revival of Norse paganism. Odin, Thor, Viking-looking white folk sporting epic beards and all that good stuff, very Bay12ish. Me, I'd be classified as an ecclectic pagan with a primarily pantheistic spiritual system. I actually have my own artificial gods and religious system I created for my Fantasy series which I satirically 'follow'. Satirically because I don't actually believe in or worship any god or gods, but see them as psychological manifestations of universal truths and facets of natural life. Honestly, I feel anyone who 'worships' a god is an utter fool, insisting on being subservient to an artificial construct of the mind. Should said god or gods even be real, I would honor them as equal among the Earth, and not as a superior being as I quiver in my boots. Homeless streetwalker, politician, economic powerhouse, or divine entity, all men and women are equal in my eyes, distinguished only by their actions and attitudes. I would treat a god no differently than a mortal man in his position, giving more or less respect by virtue of their behavior rather than title and power.

tldr; Atheist who things the universe is magical because fuck yeah why not.

[sambojin]

Religion can be a particularly introverted form of psychosis, but one that can be quite fulfilling and helpful to it's sufferers. Unfortunately it's benefits aren't transferable to those not currently experiencing such pyschological problems at this time. It never seems to matter how much you explain to people that the voices in your head, your maddened smile, the visual hallucinations of a shade of rose covering everything or your disconnectedness and apathy to your current situation in the macro-environment are all simply the work of a diety that loves you, many will still not believe. Even those of polytheistic pagan beliefs have trouble explaining their view on life, as it often boils down to "Of course I believe in one true god of unimaginable power and wisdom. I'm just smart enough to believe in all of them."

Ahh, religion......... I have an omen of this thread slipping into a dark age of tormented souls unless we repent our foolishness and get back to discussing the game at hand.

[sambojin]

I think I just got a feel for this game.

Queen makes useless mandates on troop manouevers. Bugs make gameplay difficult and sometimes un-winnable. Queen suffers unfortunate accident.

There has so far been no proof put forward that it WASN'T magma that killed her.

[SeaBee]

That particular bug did pretty much decide the war. We probably still would have lost, but it would have actually been a contest. We'll never know, though.

I second the motion that magma killed our queen, as I, too, have no evidence to suggest differently.

[sambojin]

There are, afterall, only so many ways that those of high birth can die a noble death serving their kingdom.

#1. Magma. Always the best.
#2. Atom-smashed into the afterlife, with only their soul remaining.
#3. A curious lever followed by repeated sharp stabs to their nether regions.
#4. Runaway mine carts (for those new-age monarchies).
#5. Impalement by unicorn. Not the Catherine the Great sort of impalement.
#6. Any thing that seems amusing or ironic at the time, as long as it's fatal.

So what is the consensus of the bay12 community for OOC death for our fair queen Charlotte? It was suicide, so perhaps a lever must have been used..........

Damn, it turns out that she officially died in a duel. So, essentially, a training accident. She should have trained up her wrestling skills first or upgraded to 0.34.x. Sheez, royalty and their love of 40d really does kill them sometimes........

[Trollheiming]

She got killed by a Giant Cave Spider. In fact, I wrote a book about it called Charlotte's Web.

[GundamMerc]

Depends really, but yeah. You've probably met some pansy Wiccans, a 'nature-friendly' super-hippyish neo-pagan revivalist religion that tends to be the first-step of many a silly teenager getting into pagan and neo-pagan belief systems. Ah, fresh converts, they are always so fervent... And ridiculous...

I'm an atheist, and I found this offensive. If you don't like people's belief systems, fine. But don't go around being a ignorant bigot who likes to generalize everything, bashing them so that you feel better about yourself. Learn some tolerance.

[sambojin]

Depends really, but yeah. You've probably met some pansy Wiccans,

which is lucky for you. If you'd met the really tough Wiccans, the ones that do weights and wrestle crocodiles and stuff, you'd be fooked.

I'm not an aetheist, yet of no particular religion, and I thought this was hilarious. How many types of Wiccans are there these days?

[Trollheiming]

I used to do quasi-RP worship of the Roman gods with a bunch of history-loving mad hatters over at Nova Roma, and we'd get the Wiccan types pretty often. Fortunately, this was before Steve Irwin joined the Wiccan ranks.

My impression is that Wicca is a confused mash-up of a lot of obscure sources, like worshipping Cernunnos, who is mentioned only once on a carving in France.

[sambojin]

Although, Wicca is not really any worse than any other religion, major or minor. If you look into them deeply enough, most religions are a mixture of previous beliefs plagarised, obscure nonsensical references and generalised craziness from either past rulers or holy men. All of them.

I sort of like what Irwinism can teach us. "We should all love and respect all the wonders of mother nature, but never be frightened of them. So I'm going to piss-off this stingray and see what happens........."

Quite deep in some respects. There's surely something to be learned from most viewpoints, religious or not.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Me, I'd be classified as an ecclectic pagan with a primarily pantheistic spiritual system. I actually have my own artificial gods and religious system I created for my Fantasy series which I satirically 'follow'. Satirically because I don't actually believe in or worship any god or gods, but see them as psychological manifestations of universal truths and facets of natural life. Honestly, I feel anyone who 'worships' a god is an utter fool, insisting on being subservient to an artificial construct of the mind. Should said god or gods even be real, I would honor them as equal among the Earth, and not as a superior being as I quiver in my boots. Homeless streetwalker, politician, economic powerhouse, or divine entity, all men and women are equal in my eyes, distinguished only by their actions and attitudes. I would treat a god no differently than a mortal man in his position, giving more or less respect by virtue of their behavior rather than title and power.

tldr; Atheist who things the universe is magical because fuck yeah why not.

i'm sorry to prolong the derrail but...

you'd probably enjoy, if you hadn't already, reading fernando pessoa. i'm guessing you know a bit about him already, but for the rest of the forum here goes a bit of an introduction. he was a portuguese poet and philosopher from the early 20th century, and possibly the first roleplayer. he'd write under pseudonyms and enact many varied personalities, among which were alberto caeiro, ricardo reis and alvaro de campos, the first, he described as the mentor of the other two, was an abnormally literate yet somewhat naive shepperd with a panteistic philosophy, ricardo reis was a monarchist doctor fascinated with classical greece, who ovethought his mentor's philosophy into a melancholic stoic epicurism, the third, alvaro de campos, was an engineer and a poet who eventually became the first portuguese futurist writer, and wrote poetry glorifying machinery itself in a pantheistic way. pessoa himself was an atheist, but he'd also claim to believe each of his characters beliefs in an almost schizophrenic way. it puzzled the critics, and high-school teachers speak of him as somewhat of a derranged genius, but i'm guessing those people don't know much about roleplaying communities
i find his prose very interesting, letters he wrote to friends explaining his heteronymity describe the way in which he managed to believe things he *knew* were fantasy, and how he felt his fantasies and characters were in some ways real. all this described very analytically, written in a very sane and coherent way, as well as in a beautifully written portuguese

[Ehndras]

Depends really, but yeah. You've probably met some pansy Wiccans, a 'nature-friendly' super-hippyish neo-pagan revivalist religion that tends to be the first-step of many a silly teenager getting into pagan and neo-pagan belief systems. Ah, fresh converts, they are always so fervent... And ridiculous...

I'm an atheist, and I found this offensive. If you don't like people's belief systems, fine. But don't go around being a ignorant bigot who likes to generalize everything, bashing them so that you feel better about yourself. Learn some tolerance.

I'm tolerant, I'm simply making a sound observation held by practically anyone in the pagan community. Wicca is a spiritual stepping-stone for new converts who aren't ready to step away from Judeo-Christian ideals and must place their newfound pagan beliefs within a similar system as the one they just left. Its a midway belief system and always joked about in the pagan community because its NOT supposed to be an actual organized religion - it just sort of became so because people took to it dogmatically. They're often the 'Fundamental Christians' of Paganism. They pretty much take WAY too seriously the things everyone else realizes are best served as guidelines and not a strict system. The whole beauty of paganism is to get away from dogma and righteousness and explore beyond the boundaries of spirituality and belief, not trade one god for another and pretty much continue with the same narrow-minded beliefs.

I don't know, maybe its just that every single Wiccan I've ever met or heard of is a wannabe little goff kid who's way to much into the Wiccan Rede, 'An harm ye none', the thrice-returned powers a-la karma, and all that other fluff that makes paganism look like a massive joke. I am embarrassed to say I once identified as a Wiccan mainly because its the only well-known neo-pagan belief system covered by the United States' protection of religion. I for one think Wicca is too righteous and narrow-minded, as it constantly begets the same kind of people I find irritating in Christianity, considering how most Wiccans tend to come from Christian families and find Wicca to be a pleasant system related to Christianity and 'fluffy' enough to not scare Christians into thinking they're demon worshippers. Essentially, its giving up a sense of individuality in order to not be persecuted. Wicca is the only truly organized neo-pagan belief system... Which, again, goes against the whole point of neo-pagan revival, unless you're of the African or Nord/Icelandic kind, and then they're a TOTALLY different kind of pagan as they're actually reconstructing the Old Faiths and putting them into modern terms.

tldr; Wiccans are usually the fundamentalist/Jehova's Witnesses of paganism, and not taken seriously at all.

[Ehndras]

Depends really, but yeah. You've probably met some pansy Wiccans,

which is lucky for you. If you'd met the really tough Wiccans, the ones that do weights and wrestle crocodiles and stuff, you'd be fooked.

I'm not an aetheist, yet of no particular religion, and I thought this was hilarious. How many types of Wiccans are there these days?

The vast majority of teenie-boppers, and then the few actually serious worshippers of Wicca who don't take Wicca very seriously. Wicca is 'trendy', hence the source of all its woes.

[Ehndras]

Depends really, but yeah. You've probably met some pansy Wiccans, a 'nature-friendly' super-hippyish neo-pagan revivalist religion that tends to be the first-step of many a silly teenager getting into pagan and neo-pagan belief systems. Ah, fresh converts, they are always so fervent... And ridiculous...

I'm an atheist, and I found this offensive. If you don't like people's belief systems, fine. But don't go around being a ignorant bigot who likes to generalize everything, bashing them so that you feel better about yourself. Learn some tolerance.

Right, because I'm so much more offensive than the guy who just said anyone who believes anything religious has psychosis.