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[guintiger]

Considering it... both Astrum and Morek have vast tracks of land in there control... the thing is... do they have enough nobles to fill the estates and maintain their outlying regions?

It is probably worse for Astrum since they are further stretched.  Each region they further control is one less fighting troop... that is if they intend on keeping said region.  Having a knight to fill in each estate would be ideal and allow them more actual combat strength... The regional lords of outlying regions would also not have to go back to spread bonds around as often either.

Tis a matter of efficiency after all...  and that is why you are getting bombarded...

Considering how Morek behaved and the fact that Astrum was supposed to be our allies but did nothing to help us, it boggles my mind that they have the balls to even ask us.  If they have vast stretches of land rotting away because they have no nobles to fill them, I have an incredibly hard time feeling sympathy for either of them.

[Fanofgaming]

Considering it... both Astrum and Morek have vast tracks of land in there control... the thing is... do they have enough nobles to fill the estates and maintain their outlying regions?

It is probably worse for Astrum since they are further stretched.  Each region they further control is one less fighting troop... that is if they intend on keeping said region.  Having a knight to fill in each estate would be ideal and allow them more actual combat strength... The regional lords of outlying regions would also not have to go back to spread bonds around as often either.

Tis a matter of efficiency after all...  and that is why you are getting bombarded...

Considering how Morek behaved and the fact that Astrum was supposed to be our allies but did nothing to help us, it boggles my mind that they have the balls to even ask us.  If they have vast stretches of land rotting away because they have no nobles to fill them, I have an incredibly hard time feeling sympathy for either of them.

Be fair. Astrum was allied with both Summerdale and Morek, so joining the war for either side would have devalued any other alliances that they have.. Furthermore, they're engaged in a pretty serious war on the opposite side of their realm, so they would have to split their already-weak army between both sides. It would have been extremely difficult for Astrum to contribute at all even if they weren't allied with Morek.

[revo]

That's no reason not to hate them. Morek broke their alliance with Astrum by attacking us and Astrum knew we couldn't take on Libero and Morek. In my opinion they are as responsible as Morek is. They just act with a nicer face. Worthless ally

[danaris]

That's no reason not to hate them. Morek broke their alliance with Astrum by attacking us and Astrum knew we couldn't take on Libero and Morek. In my opinion they are as responsible as Morek is. They just act with a nicer face. Worthless ally

Translation:

"Stop getting your fancy logic in my perfectly good bitter ranting!"

 

[Zangi]

That is politics for ya... the question is do you break one alliance in favor for another?  Which can have negative effects down the line, like nobles within who would dissent over the decision because of their relations?  Or your realm could be seen as less trustworthy down the line? 

For example:  There was no valid reason to break alliance with Morek, for all I know. 
If say, the head of Morek had inadvertently insulted Astrum's head or some other... they would have valid reason to break alliance and join the war.  Could even be an incident caused by a lower noble of Morek to cause grievance enough for Astrum to latch on as a valid reason to break alliance and join the war... if they were so inclined and diplomacy to make amends fails.

Tis a game of politics which the heads of realms and their diplomancers may play...

[revo]

Do you see an alliance between Astrum and Morek on the diplomacy screen? cause I sure don't. Fact is we were their allies and they did next to nothing to help us stay alive. Sure Morek was before the war their allies also but they had to break that in order to declare war. Therefore, Astrum has their ally (Summerdale) fighting in a losing war agianst people they are not in an alliance with and they do nothing at all to help us. Sounds like a pretty crap realm to have as an ally.Yes delvin I am a little bitter because even without giving us troops Astrum could have helped us by asking Morek to stay out of this or by taking a stronger stance as our ally.

[Fanofgaming]

First off, revo, calm down. It's an RP game and you really shouldn't be so upset about losing a war.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure Astrum did try to stop Morek from entering the war. However, because Morek was only helping their ally, Libero, there was nothing anyone could do. Politically, Morek was completely right to join the war, but not so much so in choosing to take all of Summerdale's lands.

Even if Astrum had taken a stronger stance as an ally, what do you expect them to have done? Like I said, they're already at war, and their army would have no chance of taking on Morek. It was a lost cause, and we all knew it when Morek attacked us. Some of us chose to stand and get their asses kicked, some of us chose to go where we knew we'd be safe while still keeping our land and our ties to each other. I still hope some of you will join us.

[Sirus]

From an IC perspective, it seems like many nobles do indeed see Astrum as having abandoned them. Not all of them by a long shot, but some of the more vocal ones.

[guintiger]

I still hope some of you will join us.

Just based on what I'm seeing in the IC and OOC chat between Summerdale nobles atm, that seems incredibly unlikely.  Those of us who are still active just want to walk through Astrum, then happily show you our backsides as we leave.  The nobles who were previously from Summerdale who defected / left / got flipped to Astrum - well...I'm even less inclined IC to look at them as friends then even the general Astrum nobility.

[revo]

I wasn't mad i just don't like Astrum. Sometimes i express things a little bit more emotionally then i mean to.

[guintiger]

I agree revo - to qualify, I'm certainly not mad at Astrum - but I don't think very highly of them either.

[Vel]

Unfortunately that's just kind of the game of politics. Few are going to risk heavy consequences just to join a cause they already view as lost. It's quite simple to justify, really -- do you think Morek would've joined Libero if they'd similarly been stretched thin and would be putting themselves in serious risk as a nation if they did?

[wolflance]

Finally I arrived at the H-something something of Astrum. Awaiting further order from my...uh, higher up.

[Trollheiming]

Unfortunately that's just kind of the game of politics. Few are going to risk heavy consequences just to join a cause they already view as lost. It's quite simple to justify, really -- do you think Morek would've joined Libero if they'd similarly been stretched thin and would be putting themselves in serious risk as a nation if they did?

Hmm. I think that reasoning ignores the larger issues which were far more relevant. Astrum was founded as a colony of Morek. It was always unrealistic to expect the child to strike the father. I doubt they've ever been at war. It's not really about the current political situation, but more about long-range principles.

[danaris]

Astrum was founded as a colony of Morek.

While true, this is misleading.

The Morek that Astrum was founded by no longer exists. Morek Empire is its successor in most ways, but it is not truly the same realm that founded Astrum. IIRC, it used to be called Xinhai until it was able to take over the lands that the original Morek (one of the 4 founding realms of Dwilight, incidentally) had once held.