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[Shakerag]

Yes, Scroll of Oracle, no artifacts. Not panicking, rushed post as I am busy. Flandre > Hapah.

That's interesting, Tiruin, because my Scroll of Tracking that I used on you last night says you were targeting someone ... me.

[NativeForeigner]

Urist I is probably a survivor.

The fuck?

Did I get my games mixed up? ._.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Yep. I think.

[Urist Imiknorris]

EBWOP: Mod: If someone is tracked when using an Oracle Scroll, who does the tracker see them target?

[Hapah]

First things first: Tiruin: I apologize for not answering your question, even if I do believe you're scum. I didn't have a reason to suspect MrD of anything. No hard evidence (that I saw), and as for the you and Urist being a setup thing, I guess I was jumping at shadows. I had myself convinced that NF was a guilty party when I sat down to write my wall yesterday, but the evidence didn't back up my accusations. I was still biased against NF (and likewise not suspicious of you two) when night fell. After having another 24 hours to review the thread, my opinion changed.

Alright, additional WoT time. Does anyone have any comment on my Shakerag post, or did I address all concerns? Please let me know, again, informed majority wins games.

My argument against you was largely circumstantial, Tiruin, until Shakerag (the only person that I feel confident is a townie) pegged you with that scroll. I'll lay out my thought process anyway, though.

Assume Shakerag is town (which I think is reasonable, based on my previous post). That means either you or Urist is the killer. I ask you, the reader, to put yourself into either of their shoes. Think about what you would do when day breaks.

Spoiler: Townie Logic (click to show/hide)

If you're a townie, and you believe Shakerag, then there is only one, obvious conclusion: The other person visiting the dead man is the killer. If you can convince those not directly involved that he is the killer, that he is the one responsible, you are exonerated the minute his blood hits the floor. To do that, you need to attack

So the enchant armor scroll didn't work.

Even though I'm up for replacement, Toaster still looks to me for night actions, just like in BYOP.

Tiruin.

and attack

Tiruin:

While I could've asked him about that, I was offline and miscalculated the time from last votecount to the current time.

Ergo, couldn't post.

And how did that make you unable to post? There's only one time that really needs remembering, and that's the time the day ends.

Then this post came up. Firstly, he ranked a person who said what his plan for the day was, going along the lines of lying-back-and-observing.

a) So?
b) Secondly?

Your reasoning is terrible. Also you haven't voted in an effort to avoid the commitment of having an opinion.

and attack

Tiruin:

Your reasoning is terrible. Also you haven't voted in an effort to avoid the commitment of having an opinion.

One thing, I don't want to place in my vote until people get in here and talk. I had a feeling on Dariush on the first day after making my post, why exactly is my reasoning terrible?

I was talking about your reasoning on GlyphGryph.

It doesn't matter if the material isn't great. Hell, it doesn't even have to be good. You KNOW he's guilty. You are fighting for your life: If he hangs, you go free.

Spoiler: Scum Logic (click to show/hide)

Now, think about the other scenario. Imagine that you are scum, caught in the same situation, with you and one other caught visiting a dead man by a trusted townie. If you hang, you're obviously scum. If the other man hangs, you still lose: you can be damn sure you'll be the next one on the end of a rope (and if the townie have nightkill items, you might not even last that long). The only option left is to DEFLECT: You need to keep that uncertainty about which of you two is the scum alive. You need, desperately, to get the suspicions planted firmly on someone, and that someone can't be the other suspect in GG's murder.

I noticed an interesting thing. Urist going right after Tiruin. Tiruin doesn't fight back against Urist. If Urist dies, he dies. Tiruin doesn't point the finger at Urist with his first post. Or his second. It takes a full seven posts and seventy-two hours before Turian points the finger at Urist, and he doesn't even vote him. He wants you to ook at GG's list, to look at Shakerag (before I laid out my reasoning), to look at NativeForeigner. Why doesn't he try to pin the blame on the one person (Urist) whose death would set him free if he was town?

These are not the actions of a townie, Tiruin. You are all free to draw your own conclusions, and I welcome your input, but unless faced with new evidence, my vote is staying exactly where it is.

And that tracking scroll, Shakerag? Icing on the cake. Also, you're welcome.

Accepting all comments. We have to talk to win.

[Toaster]

Vote Count:

Jack A T: 
Darvi: 
Tiruin: Urist Imiknorris, NativeForeigner, Hapah, Shakerag
NativeForeigner:
Shakerag:
Urist Imiknorris:
Hapah: 

Not Voting: Jack A T, Darvi, Tiruin

EBWOP: Mod: If someone is tracked when using an Oracle Scroll, who does the tracker see them target?

A scroll of tracking used on an untargeted item such as an Oracle Scroll would see them target no one.

[Tiruin]

@Hapah: I did not go after Urist I. because I wanted to check on the source of the information - Shakerag. Your logic goes against me on the lines of confirmation bias. Where did I say I believe Shakerag? I can also not believe Shakerag and be town, or is that against your best logic?

[spoiler=Townie Logic]If you're a townie, and you believe Shakerag, then there is only one, obvious conclusion...

Then you give a conjunctive statement leading one way that perfectly goes against where I see it - ending up with me being scum, the only option of attacking the other suspect to prove my townhood. You go on with the reasoning to point out that Shakerag and his buddy can't be scum because of ''undue risk'?! Then you settle in as if that is the only way of my salvation? WIFOM, I sense, pinning me down as scum.

This doesn't seem like something a scum would do to me. Please look over my reasoning, let me know if I've missed something or if you have drawn different conclusions.

I wanted to see if Shakerag is actually telling the truth on his inspections at that time. Now, I did not target him; I can see where this is going.

Scroll of Oracle...

But first, Hapah, why are you quick to 'nail all' points down as if you can tell exactly what the scum are thinking? And, why giving exact numbers of scum there, like you know how many there are?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Why OMGUS Hapah instead of pursuing your actual target? Because if you're telling the truth, Shakerag is guaranteed lying scum, and you're not doing anything about him. You "see where this is going" but don't seem to actually care about changing that outcome.

By the way, did anyone block anyone last night?

[Shakerag]

And that tracking scroll, Shakerag? Icing on the cake. Also, you're welcome.

So you're responsible for the protect?

[Hapah]

Shakerag: Correct. You're lucky I put the pieces together before night fell, I had initially PM's a different protect target in.

And Tiruin: If you disagree with my assessment of Shakerag, fine. But you need to spell out WHY you disagree if you hope to convince anyone. I've laid out my points on why I think he is town, you need to do the same to point out why you believe he's scum.

On undue risk: Think about it. Let's say Shakerag really was scum, and four people (you, Urist, Shake, other scum) all visited GG. Once the scum get that inspect result in, knowing full well that two other people visited GG, why in the world would you not wait for at least one of the two to state their action? It'd just be idiocy! Once a townie posted an inspect result, both scummies could come up with some action that isn't verifiable once the recipient is dead. Instead, he just throws his result out there: Either he's town, or a scum that isn't thinking ahead.

And all I'm trying to say with the logic is what I would do in your shoes. Please, draw your own conclusions (all of you, not just Tiruin), but Urist's actions make a certain degree of sense to me. Yours do not. Maybe you really didn't trust Shakerag (hell, I wasn't sold at the time, I didn't put the pieces together until N2) and were trying to confirm his information. But for trying to determine his alignment, you sure didn't take many shots at him (which I think you admit in your post, but I've misread statements before).

Finally, the one person I trust (Shakerag) says you visited him last night. I know he was attacked, because I'm the one who protected him. You claim you didn't visit anyone, calling Scroll of Oracles, but I'm not buying it.

And as for your last sentence: I've got to lay out my evidence as I see it. If I'm convinced by it, I see no reason to make a secret of it. I don't know what the scum think, but you can make surprising accurate assessments if you ask yourself what you would do in their place. And when did I say anything about exact scum numbers? I don't know if there are two, three, or some setup with multiple factions like Roguelike 3. There's no way to know, I think. Just have to try to take them down one at a time.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Well that explains the lack of a scumkill.

Shakerag: Correct. You're lucky I put the pieces together before night fell, I had initially PM's a different protect target in.

Who?

[Shakerag]

Yeah, just to confirm and be clear:  In addition to seeing that Tiruin targeted me last night, I was notified that I was attacked (via arrow, not sure if just flavor or relevant) and a wall of force (ditto) protected me. 

[Hapah]

Urist: You, actually. I remember having to open another tab with the thread open to look up how to spell "Imiknorris". Reasoning can come later, PFP.

[Hapah]

Where are Darvi and Jack?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Darvi's been offline for two days. No idea about Jack.

Urist: You, actually. I remember having to open another tab with the thread open to look up how to spell "Imiknorris". Reasoning can come later, PFP.

Good thing you didn't choose me - I was the dumbest possible NK target. Although considering that Shakerag was probably the second dumbest choice, we're probably not dealing with very good scum.