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Author Topic: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Haste makes waste. [Game over!]  (Read 108797 times)

Jack A T

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #330 on: May 14, 2012, 06:53:36 pm »

My read on Jack:  Scum, see below.

My read on the game:  Becoming suspicious of UI and Jack as I reread.  If they're both scum, then they could have coordinated faking actions on each other (scroll of danger/protect and scroll of treasure).  UI and Tiruin targeting GG ... maybe UI was assisting?  UI protects Native ... he would know Native isn't going to be targeted with a kill, so no flavor.  Jack IDs UI as town early on. 

Okay, that was a bit of random note taking, but I'll leave it.  Look at UI and Jack's actions.  They can't be independently verified.

UI:
N1: Enchant armor --> GlyphGryph
-He died.  Can't verify. 
N2: Protect --> Jack A T, protection triggered
-Action on scumbuddy, could have been anything.
N3: Protect --> NativeForeigner, protection not triggered
-Knew Native wouldn't be NKed, recipient can't verify if not triggered.
N4: Greater Treasure --> Jack A T, roleblocked, armor enchanted
-Cover story for a blocked NK?  Setting up cover story for Jack later on either way.

Jack:
N1: I tried to inspect Mr. D.  I was redirected to Urist Imiknorris, who showed up as town.
-Setting up scumbuddy as town. 
N2: I used my Scroll of Danger, triggering a self-kill.  I was protected.
-May or may not have happened, can't be verified except by scumbuddy.
N3 I tracked NativeForeigner, who went nowhere.
-Posted after Native said he used a scroll of ninja looting.
N4: I used my enchant armor scroll on Imiknorris. 
-Coverstory for scumbuddy.

That's awfully nice how it all fits together.  All of those night actions and no one outside of you two can verify any of it?  I can't reasonably pass all of that off as coincidence. 
Shakerag: Do you have anything on either UI or I other than actions not being confirmable?  At all?  Whatsoever?  Your entire argument is that UI and I must be scum coordinating actions because none of our actions can be confirmed except by each other, and that that must make us scum working together.  What makes it unreasonable to pass off as coincidence?  Which actions, specifically, do you think are fake?  Finally, what part of this, exactly, makes either UI or I scum?

Also, UI claiming to use a scroll of greater treasure on me and failing is the single worst cover story for me ever.  Why?  Because it doesn't actually cover anything.  At all.

Also, claiming to use a scroll of enchant armor on someone is...I'm not sure where that gives them a cover story.  Please explain.

Next up: I go to school to go to a ferry to go to an airport to take a plane to Montreal so I can take a plane to Ottawa.  Yay.
Logged
Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Bookthras

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #331 on: May 15, 2012, 04:01:08 am »

Apologies for lack of posting, I've been extremely busy. I'll catch up as soon as I can, but adding this to Jack's trip, I think an Extension would be good.
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No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Toaster

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #332 on: May 15, 2012, 07:44:41 am »

Vote Count:

Jack A T:   Bookthras, Shakerag
Bookthras:  Urist Imiknorris, Jack A T
Shakerag:
Urist Imiknorris:
Hapah: 

Not Voting:  Hapah

Day 5 will last until Wednesday, 5/16 at 11 PM EST.

One extend request heard.  Two needed to extend the day.
Logged
HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #333 on: May 15, 2012, 09:02:20 am »

Extend.
Logged
Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Jack A T

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #335 on: May 15, 2012, 01:11:51 pm »

PFP: Extend.
Logged
Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Hapah

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #336 on: May 15, 2012, 01:43:11 pm »

Exteeeeeeeeeend.
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I can't be expected to remember the names of everyone I've tried to stab.

Bored? Go read the EVE Chronicles.

Toaster

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #337 on: May 15, 2012, 01:52:32 pm »

With unanimous support, Day has been Extended.

Day 5 will last until Thursday, 5/17 at 11 PM EST.
Logged
HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #338 on: May 15, 2012, 07:51:49 pm »

I probably won't be able to post much tomorrow/Thursday. I will if I get the chance. (homeward bound)
Logged
Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #339 on: May 16, 2012, 06:53:07 pm »

Bookthras, post. The vote is tied, the one person not voting is waiting for your response, and you're lurking like a motherfucker.
Logged
Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Bookthras

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #340 on: May 17, 2012, 12:46:30 am »

As I said, I've been very busy, am likely to remain so for the next couple of days. Such is life. While I share your enthusiasm for the game moving forward, I think if out of five one is on trip and the other is busy, it's better for all if we extend the game into the weekend and resolve it when people have time to make substantial posts rather than brief PFPs or risk people hanging unheard.

But I made some time today to catch up.

Imiknorris:
If the kill attempt on Jack was the result of another's action, why would said other person not claim it? If town, it would be proof of lying scum. If rival scum, it would be a free lynch. The only person with no incentive to out a lying liar who lies would be a third-party who wants said liar to win, and Mr. Dwarfinton was already dead.
"Why would a scum would do that" is the textbook definition of wine. Let's not go too deep down that road, but here are a couple of scenarios that would make it possible (I'm not saying these are what actually happened, I'm just proving that your attempt at dismissing it as impossible is premature):
a) Jack is Tiruin's scumbuddy, he had a one-shot-kill item, and both attempted to kill that night (T's mafiakill, J's item kill), but Jack was redirected to himself and the protection triggered; once Tiruin was found out, he attempted to bus him, until he found a chance to hang MrD instead, resuming the bussing on D3 once a wagon formed on him.
b) Someone non-town used a kill action on Jack, and claiming it would mean explaining his non-town alignment. Jack's fakeclaim of a scroll of danger would be convenient for them, so they wouldn't challenge it ("hey, he's lying! I know because I used a mafiakill on him!" yeah, sure).
c) you are Jack's scumbuddy, and the whole "was protected, was triggered" thing is a red herring.

Quote
Here's another one: there's no evidence you actually protected him and the protection triggered. Again, we only have your/his word for it. If you two are a team, of any flavour, all these inconsistencies go away.
Ah, I see. How likely do you think that the scenario of the (only) scumteam being me, Jack, and Tiruin is, and why? Also, there is: Jack confirmed the protection flavor.
I do not think the three of you are one scum team. I do think that at least Jack is scum, either Tiruin's buddy, or yours in a non-Tiruin team. Which one of these, I'm not sure.

In addition, what did you do last night?
So yeah, you requested people to claim not just what they have done (which is fine by me, coming up), but what inventory they currently hold. This is not fine, as it only helps scum plan their actions better, removes town's chances of surprising scum by an unexpected inspect or something else, and it intrinsically trusts all claims of dead players (including one scum, one 3rd party). I'll do it, but I think it's at best ill-advised, and at worst scummy of you to demand it.


Jack AT:
and b):
In fact, how does any of that warrant even a FoS?  This feels oddly flimsy, especially for this late in the game and from a veteran.
I find your reaction to the question excessive. Really? not even warrant a FoS? Oddly flimsy? Especially from me? Isn't that a bit overdefensive for a freaking FoS?
That was not a rhetorical question.  I actually wanted, and still want, to know what there actually warranted even a FoS.  Seriously, I spent at least 15 minutes just staring at your FoS in confusion as to what you were trying to say and how any of it was FoS-worthy.
This is very scummy of you. Really? You stared in disbelief? Not FoS-worthy? What makes you think a FoS requires a complex rationale beyond "hey you, answer these questions or you're scum!" or "my gut tells me you are acting funny"? My gut told me you were acting funny.

No. A FoS does not require deep justification, it's merely to apply pressure. That you find it so unnerving and offensive, and demand justifications for it tells me it frightened you, as it would frighten a scum who had gone so far unchallenged.

At the time, I took it as a sure thing that Native would flip scum, and therefore we should start poking for the rest of the threats. I wasn't about to FoS everybody, so I started with those who seemed scummier to me at the time. You were one of them. That's all the justification needed to FoS you. Though my misremembering MrD's claim helped, it wasn't the only thing; there was also the funny interactions between you and Imiknorris, the "brother to a townie" thing that still seems oddly unbalanced to me (and thus unlikely), and then you compound it by replying to my FoS with a panicky, overreacting post demanding explanations, plus your N2 actions don't quite pass the smell test on second reading.

All this tells me you are the scummiest at present. Likely Tiruin's buddy who attempted a second kill N2 which backfired, and who was very glad to see Native hang instead (though your Native vote was "rather likely to move", and yet never did; likely hedging your bets to avoid looking scummy by wagoning). But I still think there's still something fishy going on between you and Jack. It may be another 3rd party thing (maybe you have another brotha from anotha motha!), or something else.



As for the claim, as I said, I think it's ill-advised, but I'll play:
I'm a town bard. I started with a scroll of hallucination and a scroll of ill will.
D1: Wand of cantrips (quest)
N1: Darvi used scroll of hallucination on Jack
D2: Scroll of protection (quest)
N2: Darvi used scroll of protection on Imiknorris
D3: Scroll of greater treasure (quest)
N3: I used scroll of ill will on NativeForeigner
D4: Scroll of protection (quest)
N4: I used scroll of protection on Hapah, was not triggered.
Current inventory: wand of cantrips, scroll of greater treasure.

As for scummitude, at the moment Jack is the scummiest, for reasons above. Imiknorris is close second. Shake was scummy earlier, mostly for failing to answer questions, but he's fallen behind by now. Hapah I get a general town read from, and I'm pretty sure he can't be Tiruin's buddy, so he's at the bottom.


I'll still be pretty busy through Friday, so I'd prefer an extension so we can work it out in full over the weekend. But I should be able to find opportunities to answer questions or make brief posts before then.
Logged
No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #341 on: May 17, 2012, 07:50:05 am »

a) Jack is Tiruin's scumbuddy, he had a one-shot-kill item, and both attempted to kill that night (T's mafiakill, J's item kill), but Jack was redirected to himself and the protection triggered; once Tiruin was found out, he attempted to bus him, until he found a chance to hang MrD instead, resuming the bussing on D3 once a wagon formed on him.
But nobody claimed that redirect, and all actions N2 were claimed, so either this isn't it or somebody's fakeclaiming other than you.

Quote
b) Someone non-town used a kill action on Jack, and claiming it would mean explaining his non-town alignment. Jack's fakeclaim of a scroll of danger would be convenient for them, so they wouldn't challenge it ("hey, he's lying! I know because I used a mafiakill on him!" yeah, sure).
Fakeclaim mafiakill as scroll of death, earn free lynch? Shakerag and Hapah already had accounted for Tiruin's mafiakill.

Quote
I do not think the three of you are one scum team. I do think that at least Jack is scum, either Tiruin's buddy, or yours in a non-Tiruin team. Which one of these, I'm not sure.
CRITICAL ERROR ALERT

This is awfully nice of you to claim scum. If Jack and I are a team, and we're not the same team as Tiruin, and one-man mafias don't exist, how can you not be Tiruin's buddy?
Logged
Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Urist Imiknorris

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #342 on: May 17, 2012, 08:31:02 am »

EBWOP: Urist message understand clear.

Quote
I do not think the three of you are one scum team. I do think that at least Jack is scum, either Tiruin's buddy, or yours in a non-Tiruin team. Which one of these, I'm not sure.
CRITICAL ERROR ALERT

This is awfully nice of you to claim scum. If Jack and I are a team, and we're not the same team as Tiruin, and one-man mafias don't exist, how can you not be Tiruin's buddy? You never would even consider that possibility if you weren't.
Logged
Quote from: LordSlowpoke
I don't know how it works. It does.
Quote from: Jim Groovester
YOU CANT NOT HAVE SUSPECTS IN A GAME OF MAFIA

ITS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME
Quote from: Cheeetar
If Tiruin redirected the lynch, then this means that, and... the Illuminati! Of course!

Bookthras

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #343 on: May 17, 2012, 10:44:13 am »

But nobody claimed that redirect, and all actions N2 were claimed, so either this isn't it or somebody's fakeclaiming other than you.
As I said, that was merely one possible scenario, not saying that's exactly what must have happened. But yes, it's entirely possible someone (alive or dead) has fakeclaimed actions, which was my original point in reply to your textbook WIFOM question; thank you for supporting it, but let's not go deeper into the wine barrel, yes? Or are you saying you are sure no one has fakeclaimed actions?


If Jack and I are a team, and we're not the same team as Tiruin, and one-man mafias don't exist, how can you not be Tiruin's buddy?
Jack could be Tiruin's buddy and teamed with you in a different way ("mafia-ally" or other weird 3rd party). Or if you are claiming exclusive teams with Jack, I guess Shakerag could be Tiruin's, but I doubt it. Are you claiming you're teams with Jack? Again, I'm not claiming certainties, merely stating that Jack seems the most scummy, his actions, answers, and reactions are scummy or suspect, and are all compatible with his being Tiruin's buddy. Your interactions with him (and your continued attempts to defend him) strike me as very suspicious, though, but I'm unclear on how to interpret them yet.


But questions for you: I notice you didn't respond to my point about your asking for an inventory claim being either ill-advised or scummy. Please tell me whether you think it would be better or worse for the town if all inventory was out in the open and why. Also, what do you think about Jack's reaction to my FoS back on my very first post on this thread?
Logged
No one ever listens to Zathras, no. Quite mad, they say.  |  That ain't a shepherd.

Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Shakerag

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 4 - Same Shit, Different Day [Day 5]
« Reply #344 on: May 17, 2012, 11:23:34 am »

Hapah:  Where are you?
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