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Author Topic: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*  (Read 323958 times)

dei

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #840 on: April 17, 2012, 04:03:04 pm »

I got a surprisingly high profit-per-investment-per-second in farmer's-market type goods at first, so I'd have to recommend that as your first store.  Try to stagger your research per building, so you always have some 30min research, some 2hr research, some 8hr research lying around--that way, when you are away from computer, you always have something useful to time correctly.

Find a good, useful one-step manufacture that's useful to a lot of people, and dump research and expansion into it when possible, once you've got your store running.  Like...I'm slowly moving to take over the cheap vanilla extract market (it'll take quite a while).  You could probably make a fair amount on gelatin, or flour, or cocoa butter, or sugar, or something like that.  Hell, if I wanted to start over right now, I would devote all my resources and research solely to artificial vanilla extract.  You'll get a lot of people who want good tech from the second step of development.  Why research wheat and flour when you can buy the flour? etc.

Look for cheap >Q16 water every once in a while...I just picked up like six million Q22 water at $0.17, which makes me happy.  Cheap eggs, cheap milk, also good stuff (if you're me).

Personally, I'm not worried about niche /store/ markets.  Aim for niche B2B markets.  Find a tech that's used in a ton of stuff...like, nobody buys my orange extract, but tons of people buy my equivalent-tech vanilla extract.

I actually chose to start with a farmer's market, and bought amounts of 10, 100, 1,000, or 10,000 of everything that I could find on the B2B market. I'm still pricing everything in the farmer's market, but I've already made it back up to around $850k from $769k in the corporate account.

I hope to hit $1.00m sometime today if I'm lucky, but in the meantime I've already started research on cocoa beans and cocoa powder. There was a lack of cocoa powder and I think eight other products for farmer's markets and I hope to somehow produce affordable mid-to-high quality cocoa powder to sell by sometime this weekend.
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Mr. Palau

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #841 on: April 17, 2012, 04:08:46 pm »

I have a question guys, what is the effect of store size on the speed of selling a product? Also does the price affect the speed the product is sold at? Does quality affect selling speed?
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #842 on: April 17, 2012, 04:14:14 pm »

Yes and yes. Chek their forum, there is the exact formula. It's based on the blue lines: average price and average quality.
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Sowelu

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #843 on: April 17, 2012, 04:14:47 pm »

The information as I understand it:

- Sale rate scales linearly with store size, with an added % based on advertising (a little goes a long way, before diminishing returns kicks in).
- There's a formula on the forum, but someone in this very thread, very recently, suggested that halving the price will increase sales by 4x.
- Try to export something, and it'll tell you how your item's base price is modified by quality.  I've been using that % increase as a guideline when selling in stores; if something at X quality would have a Y% bonus on export, I assume that I can sell it for Y% higher than a zero-quality version without losing sales.


Read the forum instead of listening to me, I'm probably wrong.
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debvon

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #844 on: April 17, 2012, 04:15:06 pm »

From the EoS General Discussion forum:

Quote
Stores
¤ Product Demand (cents) = K * Total_Building_size * (1 + 0.02 * Q_avg) * POWER( MAX(1, 3*Product_Base_Value - Product_Avg_Price/10), 0.2);


They have a thread for revealed formulas. Pretty useful if you're into analyzing it all.
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Sowelu

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #845 on: April 17, 2012, 04:16:24 pm »

Would you guys be interested in an Excel spreadsheet that gives objectively perfect sale prices, given an input of your costs, your quality, and the assumption that this is a final product (ie, not considering using it as an ingredient)?

I'd want to charge for it, of course...but I have no idea how I'd control it once I sent it out to anyone.

Oh hey that's interesting.  Am I correct in my interpretation that YOUR average quality and price is the only thing that matters, and world price and quality is completely irrelevant?  Aside from market saturation.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 04:19:43 pm by Sowelu »
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Brons

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #846 on: April 17, 2012, 04:19:05 pm »

Or how to charge for it ;)

But sure, if the price is reasonably I'd get it.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #847 on: April 17, 2012, 04:19:40 pm »

Google douments!
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Mr. Palau

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #848 on: April 17, 2012, 04:24:17 pm »

From the EoS General Discussion forum:

Quote
Stores
¤ Product Demand (cents) = K * Total_Building_size * (1 + 0.02 * Q_avg) * POWER( MAX(1, 3*Product_Base_Value - Product_Avg_Price/10), 0.2);


They have a thread for revealed formulas. Pretty useful if you're into analyzing it all.
What is K, and why are there commas between 1 and 3*Product_Base_Value - Product_Avg_Price/10?

Also I put more strawberry Banna smoothie on the B2B market for 25$ this time, don't need the cash right away so the price is higher.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #849 on: April 17, 2012, 04:28:40 pm »

I want to share my experience with water too

At start, it's useless, but now I'm producing most of my farmer market goods: I've a small and large for larger or quick batches of fruit; a small and large field and a small animal pasture, for a combined size of about 800mq

A 50mq well provides enough water for all of them, plus enough leftower to produce quality water for my lemonade plus a leftower to sell to b2b: I pay 0.4 for low quality water and 0.6 for high quality.

I use a few million a day eich means more than a hundred kbucks not spent daily.

The summary is: if your core busibess relies on water for everything, it may make sense invest in a small well. Use it wisely: I only make 24hr batches: utilities doesn't need tobfollow market fads..
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Sowelu

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #850 on: April 17, 2012, 04:55:30 pm »

Quote
(1 + 0.02 * Q_avg)
Each point of quality increase will increase your sale value by 2 percentile points.

If you want to maintain a constant rate of sales, then Sale_Price = (1 + 0.02 * Q_avg) * base.

If you plan to buy directly from B2B or import and sell in your store without using your new shiny toy as an end-product, then the difference you pay between a low Qx and a high Qy should be no higher than (Qy - Qx) * 0.02 * FinalSellValue.  That is, if you buy Q0 at $1 and sell it for $2, you can buy Q1 at $1.04 and sell it for $2.04 while keeping your profit and rate of sale the same.  For the record, that's +4% higher buy price per unit of quality.

If you plan to use it as an end product, then you need to factor in how many of the precursor you're spending per final unit, and what percent of original quality gets added.  If, hypothetically (don't have the numbers on-hand) you use five units of sugar to make one unit of candy, and 50% of the sugar quality is added to candy quality... and each unit of sugar costs $1... then the sugar cost of candy is $5.  Q0 sugar adds Q0 to candy, and Q10 sugar adds Q5.  If you sold candy for $100...then sugar of +Q10 gives +10% and therefore +$10 to your candy.  Break-even is spending $0.20 extra per point of sugar quality, or +20%.  And yes, this means that *in this poor and very extreme example*, Q30 sugar is worth seven times as much as Q0 sugar!

In other words:  If you use something as an ingredient, you CANNOT think of quality as a mere +% of value.  The farther back in the chain something is, the cheaper the ingredient is, the more expensive the final product is, and the more an ingredient's quality contributes to the end product...the more insanely high values you should be willing to spend for high quality.

Of course, higher quality items have a lower ROI.  If your Q0 items cost $1 to make and sell for $2, and your Q20 items cost $3 to make and sell for $4, you also have more of your income tied up and you can't lower prices very easily to sell faster.  (OTOH, if you raise prices, they won't sell as much slower.)  If you are churning out massive amounts of stuff, low quality is good because you can put it on deep discount to move it faster.  If you aren't selling many things due to limited factory or store size, you'll want higher quality ingredients...which is funny, I guess.


Palau, the comma in MAX means "whichever of those two things are higher".


LoSboccacc, what quality of water do you refine to?  (It's funny; now that I'm looking at these formulas, I'm rethinking my high-Q water strategy.  I still think it's worthwhile though...Gotta run the numbers hardcore when I get home.)
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #851 on: April 17, 2012, 05:06:51 pm »

Quality water get in the last step of lemonade just because of diminishing roi

I use q0 in fields. Lemons are at q25, water at q9, I think. Sugar at q2, I don't remember exactly but I'm still pumping up it.

Currently lemonade gets at +8; cartoons I buy around q10 for a reasonable price.

It's very cheap, in the end, < than .40 to produce. I sell ot on b2b as i only have a farmer market; previous batch was q7 and sold at $10

To tell the truth, the lemonade chain is just there for my leftover lemons and water to sale efficiently and at a far higher margin. I still have to see which is the most effective b2b price. Any suggestions?

P.s. I think that if you go mostly for retail selling composites give far more money per leftover than lowering retail prices; I did not run the numbers however. It's effective only if you can organize your capacity to produce those composites without dedicated factories: I already have the beverage fab for sugar and some other stuff sold at farmer markets, so it's a win win.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 05:13:40 pm by LoSboccacc »
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Kogut

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #852 on: April 17, 2012, 05:20:40 pm »

It's very cheap, in the end, < than .40 to produce. I sell ot on b2b as i only have a farmer market; previous batch was q7 and sold at $10
It is nothing! I sold 10000 of apple pies (1.6 t produce) at 70$ via B2B! For now ROI on processed items is insane.

EDIT: Farmers market: whole chicken: $3.59 to produce (my own slaughterhouse, prices on B2B are absurd) sold at $200 (!!!) with average selling price (World) at $77.7.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 05:23:27 pm by Kogut »
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ndkid

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #853 on: April 17, 2012, 05:30:54 pm »

So, I posted this over on the EoS forums, but I thought I'd ask the bright folks here, as well.

First, here are the equations and varibles in question, provided by Scott, the developer.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've been looking at these equations, and pondering the math, and I wanted someone else to check me on this.

Postulates:
1) You are selling goods with a set quality and infinite supply (i.e. the import market)
2) Your effects on average price, demand met, and average quality are negligible (i.e. you are a small retailer)
3) You are selling a product that is not > 35 points below the average world quality (this isn't strictly necessary, but let's me remove the MAX function to make my point clearer.

Theory:
The most profitable (per tick) price to set a good at, given those postulates, is twice its cost.

Math:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Given the postulates I started with, does anybody see a hole in the math? Are any of the postulates particularly unreasonable for a young retail startup? (It seems likely, though I haven't taken the steps to prove it with any rigor, that once one is attempting to sell the goods they produce themselves, the rule likely becomes: profit is maximized by selling at no less than twice the cost to produce the good, and only increasing price from there when one's means of production cannot keep up with the demand provided by that price.)
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Sowelu

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Re: Economies of Scale *Free Browser Game*
« Reply #854 on: April 17, 2012, 05:59:47 pm »

I'll have to give that rule a shot.  Can you whip up a formula that has, as input variables:
- Base price
- Volume sold at the optimal point of your equation
- Goal volume

My goal is this:
- Take my cost, double it, use that for sale price
- Wait for a tick, see what volume is sold
- Determine how many ticks of warehouse I want to burn, and how many units per tick
-- IE, I'll be away for eight hours = burn 32 ticks, I have 1600 stock = burn 50 units per tick
-- Alternately, my vanilla-extract factory produces 400 bottles per tick and I don't want to B2B it for some reason, so burn at that rate.
- Plug my cost, volume and desired units/tick into the equation
- Get an optimal sale price.

Wait...is that a trivial equation that's just barely slipping my brain?
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Some things were made for one thing, for me / that one thing is the sea~
His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!
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