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[GenJeFT]

Dwarves care not for accuracy! MAKE IT RAIN!

We shall fight in the shade! FOR FORTRESS! 

 

[Vanaheimer]

6 shots? Boy, you need to learn the thumb draw and quick draw.
Skip to 1:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqqStGeYsj8

Have you ever *shot* a high power long bow? Not a recurve bow, a proper English LONG BOW. They average draw weight is about 120-150 pounds. A good archer might get off ten shots a minute, but not for long. In proper war, if you got off 6 a minute you were considered amazing.

We're talking about bows with a higher draw weight than some people weigh. They are no laughing matter. My hunting bow is around 80 pound draw and it'll kill a bear.

It's worth noting that heavy crossbows could have a draw weight way larger than those numbers , reason being that they had a crank so you could store a lot of potential energy into it, the strongest arbalest could store 22 KILO(!!!) Newtons of force and be fired at a range of a kilometer. Marksmen  did actually exist in medieval times - people with exceptional vision mostly (since optics weren't common).

The issue with those crossbows was that their rate of fire was so much lower than an archer with a longbow. Better for sniping yes, and not bad for siege defence in some cases (although a rain of arrows like the Persians used is MUCH better), but on a battlefield where time is key an archer will get off more shots faster.

[DJ]

HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA

A car door won't stop a bullet unless it's been armoured. I have shot cars before, with handguns, and the bullet will go straight through the door and then go out the other door most of the time. A door would slow down an arrow, but a good arrow fired from a powerful bow will still kill you through one. If it didn't outright kill you, you'd be very likely to crash. Arrows hurt far more than bullets.

Lemme guess, a post 2000 Asian car? Try shooting through a good old Model T door, which would be closer to steel armour (but still weaker than it). Cars have decreased in sturdiness by orders of magnitude to save on weight and cost. Hell, you could probably *punch* through a modern car door with a bit of training.

As far as accuracy goes, the *minimum* range for archery targets in old England was 220 yards. 2 and a fifth football fields. That's an appreciable distance. 300 yards was not unheard of. An exceptionally powerful crossbow could fire even farther in good hands.

Sure, you can shoot that far. But you won't hit a damn thing at that range. Hitting things with iron sights using a rifle with a barrel on the shorter end of the scale is very unreliable, with bow or crossbow it's just blind luck.

Anyway, you're severely underestimating the strength of steel armour. It was commonly proofed by firing a pistol at it, and the armour maker would encircle the dent from the bullet to draw attention to the fact that it didn't break through. Musket rounds were a different story, though. But yeah, I don't think an arrow would even come close to the force of a pistol round.

[Eric Blank]

Hell, you could probably *punch* through a modern car door with a bit of training.

And what sort of dwarf could resist trying?

[AWdeV]

Urist McMadass bites the car in the left front door!
Urist McMadass latches on firmly.
Urist McMadass shakes the car around by the left front door!
The left front door is ripped away and remains in Urist McMadass' grip!

[FrisianDude]

Same deal with katanas as well.

Katanas were in a field of their own, it's like comparing a warhammer to an axe, and saying they're the same thing.

A field of their own how?

[NonconsensualSurgery]

With that kind of draw weight I'd feel fairly safe shooting through a car door.

You might shoot through the whole car, but strangely I can't find anything on Youtube despite the fact that this is the kind of dumb stunt I couldn't resit if I had both a crossbow and a spare car. I can say there's a lot of similarity between the business part of an AP round and an arrow; high sectional density behind a pointy steel tip. Or would it have too much friction with the plastic filler in the car door due to the length of the projectile? Someone needs to make a video.

As for car doors, they don't come with angles specifically designed to deflect arrows. Besides, car doors have been known to stop *bullets*, so I think you're a bit overconfident about that bow of yours. Or do you think that an arrow has more penetrating power than a 9mm?

Behold, redneck science! Abstract: so this weekend we decided to shoot a Buick a lot of times for fun. 9mm went through one car door, got stuck on the other side. Furthermore, .45 ACP is still awesome.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot3.htm

[AWdeV]

Same deal with katanas as well.

Katanas were in a field of their own, it's like comparing a warhammer to an axe, and saying they're the same thing.

A field of their own how?

Well, it definitely doesn't go in the same category as longbows.

[loose nut]

Why do I even read these threads? All of you are clearly missing the point, which is how awesome shuriken are.

[Vanaheimer]

HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA

A car door won't stop a bullet unless it's been armoured. I have shot cars before, with handguns, and the bullet will go straight through the door and then go out the other door most of the time. A door would slow down an arrow, but a good arrow fired from a powerful bow will still kill you through one. If it didn't outright kill you, you'd be very likely to crash. Arrows hurt far more than bullets.

Lemme guess, a post 2000 Asian car? Try shooting through a good old Model T door, which would be closer to steel armour (but still weaker than it). Cars have decreased in sturdiness by orders of magnitude to save on weight and cost. Hell, you could probably *punch* through a modern car door with a bit of training.

As far as accuracy goes, the *minimum* range for archery targets in old England was 220 yards. 2 and a fifth football fields. That's an appreciable distance. 300 yards was not unheard of. An exceptionally powerful crossbow could fire even farther in good hands.

Sure, you can shoot that far. But you won't hit a damn thing at that range. Hitting things with iron sights using a rifle with a barrel on the shorter end of the scale is very unreliable, with bow or crossbow it's just blind luck.

Anyway, you're severely underestimating the strength of steel armour. It was commonly proofed by firing a pistol at it, and the armour maker would encircle the dent from the bullet to draw attention to the fact that it didn't break through. Musket rounds were a different story, though. But yeah, I don't think an arrow would even come close to the force of a pistol round.

Why would I shoot at a model T? No one drives them except for heavily chopped t-buckets that usually don't have a roof. As for punching through, maybe but I doubt it. You could definitely dent it but your hand would be worse off than the door (assuming you aren't wearing SAP gloves or some such).

A good archer with a hunting bow can hit a target at 100 yards. I've seen a man make a 200 yard shot with a compound bow (only once). Medieval archers practised far more often and had much more powerful bows. 200-300 yards is far from impossible if one practises at that range.

An arrow doesn't have as much force as a pistol bullet. But, it's much sharper. It doesn't require as much force to cut through.

[Trif]

Force is mass times acceleration. I don't know the exact values, but since arrows are way heavier than bullets and bullets have very high acceleration, I'm not so sure which object actually has more force. The big difference makes the contact area.

Disclaimer: I know pretty much nothing about guns or bows, this is just my very basic understanding of forces.

[Frogwarrior]

Silly people. Longbows are obviously better than crossbows. For the same HP, they have 1 more attack strength and range!
And katanas aren't the best all-purpose swords, but wielding them gives you a bonus against unique units. Obviously!

Everything I learned about medieval warfare I learned from Age of Empires II. What do you MEAN the Huns didn't have trebuchets?

[AWdeV]

What do you mean, the Spanish used goddamn conquistadors against fucking woad raiders and huscarls?


That game sucks so goddamn hard. 


_{disclaimer: not actually entirely serious.}

[Loud Whispers]

And katanas aren't the best all-purpose swords, but wielding them gives you a bonus against unique units. Obviously!

Well obviously, but if you're using a katana to stab you're doing it wrong.

[ShadowBroker]

but the hit and run tactics of the vikings and the mongols make them a fierce attacking force, since we went from df, to argument, to AOE, and i am ok with this. lets start another argument.

rapiers versus longswords. people argue rapiers because of the presicion and speed one can fight at, but isnt it true that a sufficiently trained longswordsman can fight just as fast as a rapier user, and not have to rely on only piercing to get the job done?