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[Frogwarrior]

But the stereotype is they use axes and hammers and things you need a lot of room to swing around. What's up with that?

Spears don't seem to exist in fantasy. At all.

Ephraim from Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones

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Camus from Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon

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Geoffrey from Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

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Altenna/Areone from Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War

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Plenty more throughout the entirety of the series.

[Eric Blank]

Well that proves one point, but it's still just one series. Polearms in general are rather rare in fantasy, the most common being staves or glaives. I suppose spears and especially pikes aren't exactly glamorous or particularly interesting to read about, though.

[Frogwarrior]

Also the movie Hero had that one guy who had a silver spear or something. Man, that looked so badass.

[kaijyuu]

Re: Comparing weapons.


All weapons were great for the purpose they were used for, in the situations they were used for.

Bows are awesome.
Crossbows are awesome.
European swords are awesome.
Katanas are awesome.
Etcetera.


Factors like terrain, ease of training, available materials to make them, technological advancement of one's opponents, all play a factor. At the end of the day, there's no comparison. It's like asking whether a caveman or an astronaut would win in a fight. It's too ambiguous.

If you want to compare all weapons in an Arena-esque equal footing, then the answer for which is best is simple: A gun.

[ShadowBroker]

It's like asking whether a caveman or an astronaut would win in a fight. It's too ambiguous.

....just to be clear, probabally a caveman

[Awessum Possum]

^^ Not if the astronaut has a gun.

It largely depends on what armor the enemy is wearing. A European broadsword would go right through a fully armored samurai and out the other side (this vulnerability to stabbing weapons is one reason why the Yari i.e. spear was popular with the peasants) but a katana would go through many types of European armor like nobodies business.

As for spears in fantasy the main reason we don't see much of them is because they don't make good weapons for climatic duels. Legend of The Five Rings uses yari though, there are orcs using spears/pikes in LotR, and the Drasnians in the Belgariad are famous for their pikemen.

[Loud Whispers]

Well that proves one point, but it's still just one series. Polearms in general are rather rare in fantasy, the most common being staves or glaives. I suppose spears and especially pikes aren't exactly glamorous or particularly interesting to read about, though.

You just have to look in the right places ^_^

That said, they have swords in their spears, so they're cheating.

Also, they marched in formation just so they could break out of formation the first chance they got.

[kaijyuu]

It's like asking whether a caveman or an astronaut would win in a fight. It's too ambiguous.

....just to be clear, probabally a caveman

Assuming a barefisted, naked fight, it's actually more likely to be the astronaut. Those guys are in peak physical condition and would probably be larger/healthier than a caveman due to nutrition.
...but if the caveman had a club or other weapon, he'd probably win.
...but if the astronaut had a gun, he'd probably win.
...but if the caveman had an adorable pet sabretooth tiger named Fuzzy, he'd probably win.
...but if the astronaut surfed down from a moonbase on top of an android replica of Dracula, crash landing on top of the caveman and creating a smoldering crater before finally flipping him off triumphantly, the astronaut would probably win.


Point is, not enough information is included with the initial question. Similarly, no comparison of weapons is worth a damn without more details than "x vs y."

[Hotaru]

snip

snip

Japanese swords, and I would imagine European ones too, are works of art and are to be appreciated as such. Not only is every sword an individual, every swordsmith　has his own method of working steel. Comparing swords in a way that summarizes the history of the Japanese sword as one sword is like summarizing the history of painting as one artist's one work, or two. Deciding one is "better" in some objective way is as good as deciding a particular violin is better for all violinists in all orchestras, or as one of those paintings being the pinnacle of art. That's why it's embarrassing, soulless, and  in real life, would border more on the insulting if spoken to a practitioner of the swordsmanship.

In Japan, the tsurugi was made in ancient times but no longer used when native swords were available. In the west, it was used. There's probably a reason for these things. It's not found with the type of hastily googled analysis found here.

Of course, if you're discussing what the values should be in a game, that's one thing as few games have a history as long as a nation and as much variety as its people, but I got the feeling that you're trying to discuss real life here. Sorry if I made too much of it.

[DJ]

No sword can cut steel, because it's god damned steel. Unless it's a candy sword I guess, but those don't exist. What you do is hack steel, which is a whole different thing and depends more on raw force than sharpness. Then again, denting it inwards is easier still than hacking it, which is why maces and war hammers were used in the first place.

As for caveman vs astronaut, I'd put my money on the caveman. the astronaut may be in better physical shape, but the caveman would have a lot of experience with fighting men and beasts to the death.

[Talvieno]

No sword can cut steel, because it's god damned steel. Unless it's a candy sword I guess, but those don't exist. What you do is hack steel, which is a whole different thing and depends more on raw force than sharpness. Then again, denting it inwards is easier still than hacking it, which is why maces and war hammers were used in the first place.

Actually, it mainly depends on the thickness of the steel armor in question. It's perfectly possible to cut steel with a sword - I've seen it done. A sharper sword allows more of a cut, but you're right - it's primarily the force that does it. Also, it would be wrong to expect your sword to escape without taking some minor damage as well, but that doesn't happen in Dwarf Fortress, so.

[DJ]

Cutting implies clean edges. I bet the edges of those "cuts" you've seen were bent inwards and jagged, so it was actually hacked. As a rule of thumb, the material of the cutting tool needs to be significantly harder than the material of the thing being cut.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that curved swords like katana are designed for cutting, and they're much better at it than straight swords. European style straight swords are designed for hacking, and they're better at it than curved swords. They're still not all that good at it, though, an axe would do a better job. The selling point of the straight sword is versatility, it can hack and cut OKish, and stab quite well. There's weapons that do each of those things better, but none that do all of them quite as well.

[Talvieno]

Cutting implies clean edges. I bet the edges of those "cuts" you've seen were bent inwards and jagged, so it was actually hacked. As a rule of thumb, the material of the cutting tool needs to be significantly harder than the material of the thing being cut.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that curved swords like katana are designed for cutting, and they're much better at it than straight swords. European style straight swords are designed for hacking, and they're better at it than curved swords. They're still not all that good at it, though, an axe would do a better job. The selling point of the straight sword is versatility, it can hack and cut OKish, and stab quite well. There's weapons that do each of those things better, but none that do all of them quite as well.

What I saw was a demonstration of a curved blade (somewhat thick, admittedly) against medieval-style armor. Obviously neither were truly authentic - why would anyone destroy something like that? lol    But no, the cut was clean. Yes, an axe would do a lot better of a job - mainly due to the force behind it and weight of the axeblade - axes tend to be thicker and have more metal in one area. I honestly don't think a katana or longsword could easily cut steel - if at all. But the blade in question was curved and rotated against the target, which at once both allowed for a smaller contact point and a "sawing" type of cut - the same type of cut you'd get if you decided to run your finger against the edge of a sharp knife.

That last is very, very true. The best proof of it is the diversity of different weapons. If there was a melee weapon that did everything well, everyone would've stuck to it, and you wouldn't see anything else.

[AWdeV]

It's like asking whether a caveman or an astronaut would win in a fight. It's too ambiguous.

....just to be clear, probabally a caveman

Not if it's in space.

...but if the astronaut surfed down from a moonbase on top of an android replica of Dracula,

Bro-fist for Doctor McNinja.

[FrisianDude]

Japanese swords, and I would imagine European ones too, are works of art and are to be appreciated as such.

Ah, that's better. Slightly over-romanticized, but better than what I originally thought you were saying.