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[xmakina]

The future of the fortress has been updated by his Toadiness.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100851.msg3243511#msg3243511

Some interesting feedback, especially on the matter of bridges working to funnel carts.

[Trif]

Some of Toady's most interesting points:

• Items don't fly out of crashing minecarts (yet).
• Low traffic zones will be placed automatically on tracks.
• Items in the track are ignored.
• Volume will be somewhat better implemented before the next release.
• Creatures in cages behave in minecarts like everywhere else.
• We might be able to tie prisoners into carts.
• Dwarfs in carts leave the carts at stops or when they dodge.
• Getting military into carts is difficult.
• Long drops are fine for cart riders right now. This might be changed once items fly out of carts.
• Parabolas and skidding apply to propelled creatures.
• It's not clear how liquids in minecarts are going to be dumped.

[FearfulJesuit]

Still, it looks like in this upcoming release miners won't fly out of carts.

One question is, let's suppose there's a dwarf on a hatch, and below the hatch is a minecart- will the dwarf fall into the minecart, at which point the minecart can take off on its merry way down 100 Z-levels, thus quickly making its way to the magma forges?

[darklord92]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Regarding liquids, I could see a specialized liquid dumping building working, where any minecart that goes over it will dump all of it's liquid contents out. I don't know how that will mesh with what you have already, but it would probably satisfy most uses people would have for hauling liquids in carts.

wait, we already have such a building. just have pumps take from a cart in the input square.

That or just have the ability to designate tilted rails which would cause carts to dump all their contents in a designated direction unless they are manned/ going faster then a certain (usercontrollable) speed. This would allow to automate cart emptying too.

Pump taking liquids out of carts seems good too.

I feel like that should only be possible with a pump operator. Based on the archimedes screw pump design, unless you have fairly advanced machinery to where you can lift the pump then place it in the cart automatically it would just run into the pump. I could see adding the new job to the pump "pump from minecart" which would only be effective if there is a minecart on the tile below the pumping end where the liquid goes.
One could utilize the stacking feature to have the job on repeat and some sort a mechanism that send the cart on its way when it empty so that the carts stacked on top fall down into the spot.
Or since pumping jobs continue even with lack a pump-able material and thus don't need to be set on repeat (as they produce no product and take no product) they would just pump out of the cart when it arrives. This could utilize the conservation of momentum feature to send them away via new carts coming in. Like a crude digestive system.

That or just treat them like giant buckets to be dumped in a specialized pond. But I like things functioning more like an industry than an odd job.

This really strikes me as the best idea, either a work station or just build an actual screw pump over top of the rail the cart goes by.

so:

#####|####
##...[=\..###
##.7.##_###

#           wall
[=\         pump (pumping from the right
...          hole to lower Z level
_            cart track
|            axle from waterwheel or windmill
.7.           water

viewed from the side.

[bluea]

That or just treat them like giant buckets to be dumped in a specialized pond. But I like things functioning more like an industry than an odd job.

1) The changes to pit/pond zones to accommodate this would, however, be awesome. Beer ponds. Magma ponds. Blood, ichor, whatever.

2) "real industry" does actually use this type of dumping for bulk dry goods. Coal, sand, grain, flour, corn, gravel, etc. There's a tip the -car- over, method (here), and the dump-through-the-tracks method (here).
This has been done with liquids as well, but the top liquids (sulfuric acid, gasoline, liquified petroleum, chlorine) require sealing and strengthening in expectation of !!Fun!! - which means no giant opening doors. And our pumps are much, much better. (Just thinking about emptying a milk tanker car via hand screw pump versus a simple gravity drain.... Ick.)

[Old Greg]

He also confirmed that carts will train dodge. Danger rooms will be better in most cases, but it might be nice to train up the whole fort by having featherwood carts zoom around in high-traffic areas.

[Urist Da Vinci]

Some of Toady's most interesting points:

...

• We might be able to tie prisoners into carts.

...

We'd considered the ability to tie people up and place them places, since that comes up with tracks, but ended up not having done it up to this point.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChainedToARailway
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DastardlyWhiplash

[Niccolo]

I feel like that should only be possible with a pump operator. Based on the archimedes screw pump design, unless you have fairly advanced machinery to where you can lift the pump then place it in the cart automatically it would just run into the pump. I could see adding the new job to the pump "pump from minecart" which would only be effective if there is a minecart on the tile below the pumping end where the liquid goes.

When I read this at first I thought "Y'know, spin it the other way and it'd make a damn good boat."

[dhoovr]

I feel like that should only be possible with a pump operator. Based on the archimedes screw pump design, unless you have fairly advanced machinery to where you can lift the pump then place it in the cart automatically it would just run into the pump. I could see adding the new job to the pump "pump from minecart" which would only be effective if there is a minecart on the tile below the pumping end where the liquid goes.

When I read this at first I thought "Y'know, spin it the other way and it'd make a damn good boat."

Strap waterwheels on the side to power the pump and line up on a latitude composed only of water; you'll rip through time and space back into world gen.


On the topic of those "industrial methods"

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That or just treat them like giant buckets to be dumped in a specialized pond. But I like things functioning more like an industry than an odd job.

1) The changes to pit/pond zones to accommodate this would, however, be awesome. Beer ponds. Magma ponds. Blood, ichor, whatever.

2) "real industry" does actually use this type of dumping for bulk dry goods. Coal, sand, grain, flour, corn, gravel, etc. There's a tip the -car- over, method (here), and the dump-through-the-tracks method (here).
This has been done with liquids as well, but the top liquids (sulfuric acid, gasoline, liquified petroleum, chlorine) require sealing and strengthening in expectation of !!Fun!! - which means no giant opening doors. And our pumps are much, much better. (Just thinking about emptying a milk tanker car via hand screw pump versus a simple gravity drain.... Ick.)

The tipping method could be automated with a couple of mechanisms, some chains, and a specialized track (or simply a hinge and curved walls to use its forward force to push the cart off and back onto its hinge) but I'd imagine some issues in the "dump-through-the-tracks method" with leaking or automation. Although the game's not gonna consider the actual design outside of the components used to create it so this is mostly all pointless.

[SmileyMan]

Obviously it will have some sort of weighted value that lets the dwarves decide when to haul the barrel or when to haul the seeds.

Which, being dwarves, they will inevitably get wrong.

[Sadrice]

Toady said it may be difficult to make our millitary ride minecarts.  Perhaps off duty millitary could be persuaded to use a cart to haul some bolts, and then en route they get put back on active duty and get their cart sent out to the entrance hall track?  Activating them will cancel their haul job, so I suppose they might get confused and jump out of the cart.  Toady said they shouldn't, but he might not have tested that particular circumstance.

[rtg593]

For dump through track, could make a new 3x3 workshop that needs the center tile channeled out. Built in 4 way track intersection, cart leaves same direction it enters.

Well pretend the dorf flips the cart like a skateboard as he goes over

[Psieye]

Toady said it may be difficult to make our millitary ride minecarts.  Perhaps off duty millitary could be persuaded to use a cart to haul some bolts, and then en route they get put back on active duty and get their cart sent out to the entrance hall track?  Activating them will cancel their haul job, so I suppose they might get confused and jump out of the cart.  Toady said they shouldn't, but he might not have tested that particular circumstance.

No, this is the exact scenario he tested for that one devlog post. Result: it works. It's a big micromanagement overhead though, so perhaps not feasible en-masse.

[Urist Da Vinci]

Toady said it may be difficult to make our millitary ride minecarts.  Perhaps off duty millitary could be persuaded to use a cart to haul some bolts, and then en route they get put back on active duty and get their cart sent out to the entrance hall track?  Activating them will cancel their haul job, so I suppose they might get confused and jump out of the cart.  Toady said they shouldn't, but he might not have tested that particular circumstance.

No, this is the exact scenario he tested for that one devlog post. Result: it works. It's a big micromanagement overhead though, so perhaps not feasible en-masse.

1. Off-duty military still shoot their crossbows at things, and will carry around weapons/armor if you tell them to.

2. A stockpile in the combat zone only accepts items brought from a cart track. The cart track only accepts items brought from a stockpile in the deployment room. The track(s) can only be accessed from the deployment room, but doors to the tracks are kept locked. Off-duty idle military dwarves are kept by some means in the deployment room, and civilians are excluded. When battle calls, the deployment room doors to the rest of the fort are locked, and the door(s) to the tracks are unlocked. Mass hauling commences. Timing might not be exact, but training and martial trances will help here.

[rtg593]

Toady said it may be difficult to make our millitary ride minecarts.  Perhaps off duty millitary could be persuaded to use a cart to haul some bolts, and then en route they get put back on active duty and get their cart sent out to the entrance hall track?  Activating them will cancel their haul job, so I suppose they might get confused and jump out of the cart.  Toady said they shouldn't, but he might not have tested that particular circumstance.

No, this is the exact scenario he tested for that one devlog post. Result: it works. It's a big micromanagement overhead though, so perhaps not feasible en-masse.

From reading the log, it wasn't that they got confused and jumped off, it was that the dorf dodged the gobbos punch, and when he dodged he landed on the ledge with the gobbo. Otherwise he should have stayed in.