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[adwarf]

Thanks for making this thread ffs

Any who I myself absolutely love the NIS games, the only thing that I think beats them is Final Fantasy, I own Disgaea 1-2, Phantom Brave, and Makai Kingdoms. All of the games have similar game-play, but they somehow manged to make all of those games addictive to the point where I have beat Disgaea 2 eight times (Although after the second play-through I did do the Nekomimi monster cheat, so I got a Lvl. 9999 character when the rest of mine where around 50).

Anyways I've been meaning to get to beating Phantom Brave, and Makai Kingdom (Both of which I'm around half way through, and haven't played in around two years), but I can't think of any reasons to get back into them now that I've forgot the story elements, should I just start all over, or what?

[Farce]

Yeah, it's all airship.  There isn't any of this or this, which really sucks, but as the only translated one in the series you gotta take what you can get.  :V

But yeah, IMO it's sadly the least metal of the series - but, the others are rad enough that it's still pretty awesome.

And yeah, the others all happen in Japan, except for 3, which is in Paris.  Like 5 getting jazz-themed, it gets suitably Frenchy.  Not to digress, but in 4 France does this and I think it's awesome

[majikero]

I think 4 was fan translated or was it 2, not sure. I saw an LP of it, it has some sort of timed mini-game/reaction system. One of those mini-game/reaction involves putting you pants on. Not sure what happens when you fail that though.

[Neonivek]

One issue I have with Disgaea is that there is no word to describe the type of strategy game it is.

In that... There is little to no strategy involved.

Everytime I ask for a Turnbased Strategy RPG I get recommended Disgaea which while not a bad game... IS NOT a game I'd consider to be a true strategy (There are no strategy only exploits)

Ohh well Disgaea series must be really easy to produce balance wise because they really don't have to try. Shame that Turn-based strategy RPGs are getting more and more dead.

Note: I like Disgaea... I shouldn't have to say this, but I this may be confused for "Anti-disgaea" sentiments when really... I am just comparing it to Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, Front Mission, or even Pokemon Mystery dungeon.

[Haschel]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that Neonivek. It is a strategy game, it's just not a strategy that conforms to the standards set by other games. You have to use and abuse core game mechanics to have a chance of surviving a battle(Item World/Land of Carnage most of all). People say it's all grinding, but the grinding itself requires thought, preparation and strategy. There's also a myriad of levels in every game that can't be won unless you solve geography puzzles. Even if the solutions are relatively simple at times, I would dare to say it's considerably more strategy required than anything in FF Tactics, Tactics Ogre, Front Mission etc.

[Farce]

I think 4 was fan translated or was it 2, not sure. I saw an LP of it, it has some sort of timed mini-game/reaction system. One of those mini-game/reaction involves putting you pants on. Not sure what happens when you fail that though.

That's the first I've heard of it - where'd you hear that?

[Catastrophic lolcats]

I don't want to make enemies here. But judging from your first post, how does a game with a massive amount of grind and little storyline with turn-based combat really matter?
I was under the impresion that those things were outdated and arachic. I'm seeing this as a game that the fans of the series would enjoy but it doesn't come across as anything the outsider should ever consider.
 
I really know nothing about this series but this a highly desired sub-genre? I know that the "sandbox" games like harvestmoon and Mine craft are very popular, but I've never seen the point of grind unless it's polished to be fun. See Mount and Blade.

[freeformschooler]

I was under the impresion that those things were outdated and arachic. I'm seeing this as a game that the fans of the series would enjoy but it doesn't come across as anything the outsider should ever consider.
 
I really know nothing about this series but this a highly desired sub-genre? I know that the "sandbox" games like harvestmoon and Mine craft are very popular, but I've never seen the point of grind unless it's polished to be fun. See Mount and Blade.

You're right on almost all counts. Several non-Disgaea NIS/NISA games would appeal to a wider audience, but Disgaea itself remains a niche product. It's very grindy, but fun enough to ignore that sometimes (IMO - this depends on what kind of gameplay appeals to you).

I mean... I guess it's sort of like first-person dungeon crawler RPGs (Dungeon Master, Wizardry, Tome of Mephistopheles etc.) There's still definitely an audience for them judging by the latest releases in that category, but the format is outdated and the gameplay can be a little obtuse.

I do, though, recommend trying it once if you're a fan of other SRPGs.

[TwilightWalker]

One thing to make note of though is that the main storylines for the Disgaea games tend to need little or no grinding to complete. But Disgaea does not contain just their main storylines. To get through all the extra maps and other endgame content? That's what requires the grinding.

[majikero]

That's the first I've heard of it - where'd you hear that?

I checked it out. Sorry It wasn't a fan translation. It's a still japanese but the LP translated the script.

It's here.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=330993837#post330993837

The timed response is there though.

[Alkhemia]

I beat every Disgaea game I'm working on all the Endings in 4 right now I'm going to get the Vita version of 3, there my favorite game series, More games need to have a level cap of 9999.

[neotemplar]

*Prepares for abuse*

Found Disgaea fairly uninspired and boringish with way too much grind.  Only Etna and Prinnies as notably fun characters.
Found Makai Kingdom to be pretty much horrible in all ways.

Soul nomad, acceptable (I think this was them) good humor, good character designs, weak game play.

La Pucelle Tactics- Fantastic and makes me wonder why people put Disgaea over it so much. (Actually I should pull this out to finish.)
Phantom Brave- Vastly superior to Disgaea.  Because it boils down to what the genre is designed to be, super power 1 hit kills en mass.

[freeformschooler]

* freeformschooler presses "abuse" button!

But no seriously, to each his own. I have a question for anyone here who's working through Cladun X2: how do you beat the first boss in the game (The icicle-slinging enemy at the end of Initiation Woodsea 4F)? I mean... I have three characters I've grinded to about level 13 all decked out with some of the best equipment at that point in the game, but the boss is level thirty - several leagues above the rest of the enemies in the level. I can barely damage him at all, and even though I can dodge his attacks, a mere couple lucky hits decimates my entire party.

Or do I not have to beat him to finish that level?

[Neonivek]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that Neonivek. It is a strategy game, it's just not a strategy that conforms to the standards set by other games. You have to use and abuse core game mechanics to have a chance of surviving a battle(Item World/Land of Carnage most of all). People say it's all grinding, but the grinding itself requires thought, preparation and strategy. There's also a myriad of levels in every game that can't be won unless you solve geography puzzles. Even if the solutions are relatively simple at times, I would dare to say it's considerably more strategy required than anything in FF Tactics, Tactics Ogre, Front Mission etc.

I am not saying it is all grinding (since you have to exploit to get around grinding) but once you are in a battle all strategy gets thrown to the wall and forgotten

What you are describing is a puzzle game at best.

Also here is a reason why I can argue against its strategy:
When a exploit is found in Disgaea that breaks the game... it is part of the game (strategy is a meaningless component afterall)
When a exploit is found in ANY OTHER game that breaks the game... it is a negative aspect of the game. (For example the gamebreaker character in Final Fantast Tactics)

It isn't so much that there IS no strategy (but I would argue that) it is that it is meaningless and is considered an unimportant aspect. You want to just go fight the last boss with no thought? Go ahead you will succeed! Want to fight the final secret boss with no thought? Well you will lose UNLESS you know the exploit!

So I guess I could just say... Disgaea isn't a "Serious strategy". Also by the by the Relm of Chaos is a puzzle section and the Item World is also mostly a puzzle section. Though even if Disgaea was the GREATEST strategy game ever known it STILL isn't the same style of strategy. The goal is to break the game rather then playing within the game's set rules.

[ndkid]

I am not saying it is all grinding (since you have to exploit to get around grinding) but once you are in a battle all strategy gets thrown to the wall and forgotten

What you are describing is a puzzle game at best.

Next, you're going to tell me that I don't actually get into role of my character in most console RPGs! Or that guinea pigs are neither pigs nor from Guinea!

At the least, I'd say that many, if not most, genre names with "strategy" in them are actually tactical games. But if we're going to stretch our definition, than any game with tactical choices that one can affect over subsequent battles/skirmishes seems like it must meet a reasonable definition of "strategy". Since not every level of Disgaea can be solved by breaking pyramids, at some point, choosing the right forces to fight the battle (which is at least partially a matter of training and outfitting those forces) is necessary.

If this is insufficient to meet your definition of "strategy", I fear that our semantic differences are too large to be overcome.

In any case, that is what they are: *semantic* differences. It's obvious that we also have differences of taste, but that's to be expected.