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[Askot Bokbondeler]

Once again, I have to wonder at how people can say that ASCII is better for their imaginations, but when given as much freedom to draw any object they can manage to cram into the pixel limitations, they assume that they are incapable of coming up with anything but the two most popular versions of the graphical tilesets.

If you don't like the same dwarves as the most popular tilesets have them, draw your own. 

It's easy.  16x16 pixel tiles take 5 minutes, tops.  That's when I really take the time doing the shading, too.  Basic silhouette types are a minute, easy.

Trust me, you're not going to be confused by what something represents when you're the one who drew it, and it will give the game much more meaning to see your own little critters tramping around the field getting their arms cut off.

why would i draw my own tiles if i'm perfectly satisfied with ascii graphics? 5 minutes per tile is still a whole lot when you sum up all the creatures in my raw folder, and i mod out most of the vanilla ones.

Besides, as I've said before, distinction is more important.  I can draw tilesets that represent creatures as simple bars of color, and as long as the color bars are distinct enough fields of color, I will be able to discern the data they impart far faster than with default ASCII.

as i said, ascii conveys enough information, and it's read far faster than any tileset i have come across. tilesets may be able to convey much more information, but to my knowledge, the existing tilesets do so in a way that the tiles themselves become too cluttered with colour and superfluous detail, and while individually they may be beautiful, when filling an entire screen they become seizure inducing. yes, it would be possible to create some more minimalistic tilesets, and yes, i'd be perfectly capable of doing it, but then again, i'm also perfectly satisfied with ascii graphics, so why would i?

[dizzyelk]

If you don't like the same dwarves as the most popular tilesets have them, draw your own. 

Two problems with that:
1- I'm a little too much of a perfectionist, and would end up taking forever to be satisfied with the tile. And that's if I even get started because...

2- I'm a lazy bastard and there are entirely too many tiles I would have to create.

[NW_Kohaku]

Just curious, have you seriously done so before?

I haven't tried to do a full creature pack with one, no, but I'm saying it's entirely possible if you want a purely abstract style of graphics set to make one.

Spoiler: these were icons for dwarves (click to show/hide)

why would i draw my own tiles if i'm perfectly satisfied with ascii graphics?

That's not the argument you were making in your last post, however...

i find graphical tilesets hard to understand and not abstract enough. i could picture myself playing with a graphic tileset that represented creatures with simplified stickmen versions of themselves, but the disneyesque or chibbi aesthetics that is prevalent among tileset designers makes the sprites much more confusing and cluttered with superfluous decoration, and make df seem much less gritty. i don't particularly dislike disneyesque aesthetics, but when detailed dismembration is involved i'd rather have it photo-realistic, like ascii

In other words, you're not making an argument against graphics, you're just saying you don't want to play Ironhand or Mayday or some of the other most popular tilesets. 

Which brings us down to this:

yes, it would be possible to create some more minimalistic tilesets, and yes, i'd be perfectly capable of doing it, but then again, i'm also perfectly satisfied with ascii graphics, so why would i?

Which is the argument I and others have been making: That the only reason people aren't making more graphics sets is that they just can't be bothered, not because ASCII is somehow superior.


Edit: forgot to put the "img" brackets around the image.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i also said

i could picture myself playing with a graphic tileset that represented creatures with simplified stickmen versions of themselves

so i'm definitely not arguing against graphic packs, nor saying one is superior to the other, i was justifying my choice so my post would be a little more interesting than "i use ascii."

[Rex_Nex]

Otherwise, it isn't terribly logical to chose ASCII over Tilesets. Other then to fit into the whole elitist attitude ASCII players seem to have.

Okay, what.

You're damning the entire ASCII community because of the actions and opinions of only a part of the ASCII community?

I worded that wrong, but what I have seen is that it is very prevalent in every roguelike I have ever played that many ASCII players feel that playing with a tileset or graphics is "impure" and "never to be taken seriously". That is just the way it is. "No truly good players use tilesets, how weak". It annoys me to no end and is ten times as common as tileset users saying ASCII is for pansies and no true players use ASCII.

My mistake was not adding "some" between "attitude" and "ascii", but otherwise my point stands.

[Tarran]

Maybe it's just that the neutrals and tileset lovers don't say anything? Or maybe you're only looking at the negatives?

If you look at the first few pages of this thread, quite a lot of people don't actually insult tilesets. And 4/5 people afterwards don't plain insult tilesets. Maybe a few passing negatives, forgetting to add "In my opinion" (which, as your mistake showed, can happen), but honestly there weren't many insults.

Give me an example Roguelike, and show me a thread. Are there really actually places that bad?

[Vherid]

What's wrong with just liking ASCII because it's sharp and crystal clear and not over-cluttered with shit all over the place? Or like the idea of the abstract multirepresentation, maybe people want to use their imagination for things and not have literal representations of things dictated for them. I know people have made these points and not everyone in this thread is arguing against these namesakes, but damn. Just because a few people are elitist and because "you" think there's no absolutely no point in ASCII because it doesn't make any sense from a design point of view, as if you're the worlds greatest engineer or something, that's just silly.

It may be a little late to leave that comment but I would still like to speak out against such people. Why can't people just like what they like?

[tjg92]

I like ASCII over shitty amateur tilesets in most roguelikes, but ASCII tends to be a clusterfuck in DF. Although, the way tilesets work in DF is still really shitty so it's not a big improvement anyway. Because of that I have 0 preference. Hopefully Toady will make it possible for people to implement actually good tilesets some time this decade. Regardless of what tile or ASCII set I choose, the game still kind of hurts my eyes/brain.

[dreiche2]

Finally someone who offends both the ASCII and the tileset "camps" equally! 

[Tarran]

Vherid, fighting for ASCII acceptance by raging and insulting graphics packs/tilesets is not the way to go.

[Leatra]

This discussion is getting pointless.

[dizzyelk]

This discussion is getting pointless.

Getting? I'd say its passed that point a few pages ago.

[Vherid]

Vherid, fighting for ASCII acceptance by raging and insulting graphics packs/tilesets is not the way to go.

This thread is silly.

[Tarran]

This thread is silly.

It's strange you say that because you seem to be taking this thread seriously.

Besides that, that's a terrible excuse to get you out of taking responsibility for what you say in your posts.

[Vherid]

This thread is silly.

It's strange you say that because you seem to be taking this thread seriously.

Besides that, that's a terrible excuse to get you out of taking responsibility for what you say in your posts.

What did I just say bro. Can we not use the scroll wheels?